City Market Building to Become Cobblestone Hall in Raleigh

Yep, They Are Doing Something With Greenshields

September, 25, 2008 , by Jedidiah

Advertise on NR

Finally something will happen with the fantastic centerpiece building in City Market. Formerly Greenshields Brewpub, this building is currently under renovation and will become Cobblestone Hall, a space for “wedding receptions, corporate functions or social gatherings” in downtown Raleigh.

Cobblestone Hall is scheduled to open in January 2009 and includes 7,500 square feet that will hold groups from 10-600. This could become the premier place to hold events in downtown (what about music festivals inside???) and make the Moore Square even more lively than it already is. Just think if many of the festivals that occur on the square could actually have an interior component as well. Some of the bars/restaurants in the area attempt to open their doors for patrons but a huge open space like this could revamp the whole location.

Although this is a great addition for downtown, it’s still too bad it wasn’t King’s Barcade as the rumor mill continues to state.

History of the building here.








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Development City Market Cobblestone Hall Greenshields Pub King's Barcade

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  • jauerbach123
    09/25 06:39 PM

    Thanks for the mention of our new special events facility - Cobblestone Hall. We are very excited to be a part of the downtown explosion of growth going on in Raleigh. The 7500 square feet we will be using for the venue will be the premier downtown special events location, with the UNMATCHED atmosphere and environment of historic City Market and Moore Square.
    More information coming soon!

  • Sallie
    09/25 06:42 PM

    Ugh - really? This is it? While I suppose it’s better than just sitting there empty and continuing to deteriorate, it’s not exactly the “active use” to jumpstart a horribly underutilized area with SO much potential. I think the owner is just continuing to string everyone along…

  • CJT
    09/25 06:52 PM

    I agree with Sallie.

    Event halls are notorious for failure and the appearance of non-use.  Downtown Raleigh has plenty of event space (restaurants, hotels, THE CIVIC CENTER, et al).

    A space of this size should be a grocery store/eatery…something high traffic.

  • jauerbach123
    09/25 07:15 PM

    We are anticipating 100-200 events a year, many with 300-500 people per event. In addition the front 1/3 of the building facing the park will be a new restaurant eventually also. The building will be alive with activity, as well as City Market getting a complete renovation of all of the store fronts. That work started this week.
    Going to be so much going on in the area! It is great for all!

  • SLS
    09/25 07:21 PM

    I agree with CJT.  I think this would be an ideal location for Wal-Mart!  That would really increase traffic in the area.

  • CJT
    09/25 07:47 PM

    SLS:  I did NOT say anything about a commercial grocery store.  So you don’t agree with me at all. THANKS.

    But more seriously, and objectively, would it not be nice to see a real consumables market here?  That was the original intention of the building after all.

    To jauerbach123:  If you can pull 30,000 to 100,000 people through in a year.  Wow!  Hats off to you!  A restaurant here would be nice as well.

  • richardfoc
    09/25 08:00 PM

    I wish a downtown grocery store would work but Capital City Grocery is trying and we all know how that is going. I wouldn’t expect them, or anybody else, to do any better in this building…with the most obvious drawback being readily available parking. If you can’t get people to park in a lot to grocery shop you really won’t get them to park in a deck to grocery shop. Sad but true. A restaurant in the front of the building sounds like a good idea. And while I am skeptical of the event/attendance numbers it would be cool if they turn out to be true.

  • jauerbach123
    09/25 08:37 PM

    When the N&O ran a 2 line mention of Cobblestone Hall over a month ago we received 16 calls from brides looking for a wedding venue in 2009. Today alone we have received over 15 new calls before 1pm. Obviously we know the special events business and 1-2 weddings alone a week average is not out of the question, especially for a venue and surrounds of this beauty. Add in corporate events during the week and that estimate is potentially low. Again, we are obviously excited and optimistic knowing the market in this area as we do!

  • Sallie
    09/25 08:52 PM

    I’m with you on the grocery store/market being great for there, just like it was designed to be, but disagree on the opinion that a market can’t succeed downtown based upon the fortunes of Capital City. If it was done right, I have no doubt that one could do really well. Capital City is nice for a lot of reasons, and I really WANT to support them since they’re local, but when I can never get what I need there, and what is in there is priced SOOO much higher than anywhere else, then that’s a problem. I’m not talking about getting fancy specialty things, or having all sorts of variety like you would find in a gazillion square foot Kroger, but it’s not so easy to find basic staples there, so I always have to end up going somewhere else and who has time to chase stuff around? Capital City needed to fill a niche need and market themselves as such - I know when they rehabbed MANY people suggested that they alter their ambiance, create a shopping “experience” - and they didn’t do anything to adjust the “setting” besides adding a sushi bar - the harsh lighting and colors - not exactly the kind of place you want to hang out/linger. I thought when they were closed for so long, it was going to be a real, bonafide overhaul, but there wasn’t much of one. I do love the concerts and the fact that they have a lot more local things there though than you can find elsewhere around here - but they need to fix a lot of boo-boos, and I don’t know how many people will keep giving chances when there’s often a disappointment.

    I certainly hope the music hall does well too - but would love, love, love for there to be something outside - oh how I miss eating Greenshield’s mediocre food al fresco under the twinkling lights!

  • CJT
    09/25 10:14 PM

    jauerbach123:  If you’re getting those kind of calls right now, then the place will definitely thrive as an event space!  I’m interested in your restaurant plans as well. 
    -
    Sallie:  I agree on all points! 
    -
    I think Raleigh business owners and entrepenuers could gain a lot by taking a close look at the Chapel Hill area.  Chapel Hill and Carcboro have loads of variety and unique venues.  And as I see it, the culture there is not that different.

  • Tony
    09/25 10:31 PM

    What are the plans for the ugly parking lot behind city market and in front of the school?  It has sat there for YEARS.  Expand city market!  Put retail, ice cream shop for the kids, candy store for the kids, deli, bars, shops on street level with offices and hotel over the street activity (nice 20-30 story building, but one that blends in with the city market theme/look). 

    This city market owner (has no vision) is pathetic.  It has taken this long to do something (which is very little).

  • Gim.
    09/25 11:56 PM

    “with the most obvious drawback being readily available parking.” 
     
    I don’t think that drawback is very obvious to the residents of Founder’s Row, Palladium Plaza, RBC Plaza, The Hudson, Person Pointe, Carleton Place, Prairie Bldg and the freestanding houses and apartments down Blount, Person and E. Davie in the immediate 4 block radius of City Market.

  • jauerbach123
    09/26 12:46 AM

    there is SO MUCH parking and now they have added 1 HUGE parking deck right next to City Market with more parking to come. I have worked IN City Market since 1999 and there is tons of open parking spaces in lots and all around. The parking decks just make it even better.

  • richardfoc
    09/26 01:56 AM

    My comments about readily available parking were only in reference to a grocery store being placed in City Market…nothing more, nothing less. I maintain that people will not use the decks and on street parking in a 4 block radius when it comes to shopping for groceries. Just ain’t gonna happen. This is ultimately a moot point though since it doesn’t sound like a grocery store is in the actual plans anyway.

  • jauerbach123
    09/26 02:00 AM

    I actually agree with you about the parking for a grocery store. I lived in NYC for 7 years and DC for 6 years and you are correct about how far people will park away from a food store.

  • 150
    09/26 12:38 PM

    I agree with richardfoc and Sallie regarding the grocery store idea.  Based on how Capital City Grocery is doing, I don’t think that the market is there for that type of business.  The farmer’s market in City Market was recently featured in the N&O as having major struggles attracting business, too.  If fresh, local produce at City Market isn’t attracting customers, and a grocery store 1/2 mile away isn’t attracting customers, then what evidence do we have to suggest another grocery store would work here? 
    I’d put my vote in for a restaurant for this space.  Something that is open for lunch and on the weekends.  The Duck and Dumpling, Caffe Luna, and Tir Na Nog seem to attract plenty to the street, so have the base tenant in City Market help link everything together.

  • B
    09/26 01:12 PM

    What about winter housing for the homeless people sleeping in Moore Square. And people coming and going from the bus stop all day should provide enough business to stay afloat. Just keep the shelves packed with Menthols and Fortified Wine.

  • TSnow27604
    09/26 01:27 PM

    I agree with Tony about the parking lot but then he loses me completely.  I don’t think calling anyone “pathetic” is particularly constructive.  Maybe the owner is looking for investors to help with the large costs involved with renovations.  Would you like to contribute money to the cause?  Action speaks louder than disparaging words.  As for the parking lot, the only thing I ever see are the horses for the city police.  I feel they can unload (in more ways than one) somewhere else downtown.  What about a courtyard area with outdoor dining?  It’s crazy that almost everyone in all discussions talks about the desire for outdoor dining and yet nothing ever really happens.  What the heck?  Is nothing learned by seeing Mellow Mushroom or the meager seating at Raleigh Times, Duck & Dumpling, Village Deli, etc?  They’re packed.  Someone help me out, are there city codes that work against al fresco dining?

  • Ken Metzger
    09/26 01:54 PM

    I do find that using this great building as meeting space is very disappointing, but i think that is because I will probably never use it.  (If it could be used often for First Friday events, then I might change my mind)  I guess, for now, any renovation and actual use is better than an empty leaking space.
    I love the idea of expanding the market in to the parking lot, because one of the problems with city market is that it is actually very small, so there is isn’t all that mush of an atmosphere there.
    Tony, how would you have a 30 story building blend in with city market?  Make a skyscraper out of rustic brick?

  • jauerbach123
    09/26 02:05 PM

    guys - the parking lot is partially owned by the city. Please keep that in mind. It IS over 3/4 full every single day and they sell parking spots there, so it is generating income for someone. There is outside seating at almost every restaurant in the area. Tir Na Nog, Duck and Dumpling, Woody’s, Vics, etc etc etc ALL have tables that are filled on any pleasant day. The new restaurant that will be in the front part of the space we are adding Cobblestone Hall to will ALSO have outside seating. We are planning to have outside events in conjunction with functions going on inside. The entire area is evolving right now finally and everything is positive and will continue to grow with each new opening or renovation.
    Finally about the homeless, that is partially due to the rescue mission that is located along the park. It is being relocated in the next few years to a new location that they have already secured. They are just finalizing their funding. New upscale apartments are scheduled to go up on the same block as well. All will move forward in the near future.

  • L
    09/26 02:05 PM

    TSnow - I agree with you. I think its residents, perhaps w/o a “business mind” or investment strategy (like you and I?) who are consistent patrons to businesses of the area that notice these nitches such as lack of spacious outdoor dining experiences and are prime candidates to do something about it. It seems that business folks who come in w/ their investment strategies sometimes don’t know their market as well as say you or I do because we ARE the market. Anyway, not that I’m in the position to open a restaurant, but if I was I to open a restaurant or bar I guarantee it would fill a nitch that is lacking in this area and would thrive.  Sometimes the best ones of these in neighborhoods are opened by locals with a vision. I think these companies whoever should TALK to the residents of the community and not just talk, but LISTEN if they really want to be successful. That is what will work and what will fill our nitch.

  • Matthew Brown
    09/26 02:18 PM

    A few years ago, I would have thought that using this space as an “events facility” for weddings and receptions was nuts. Besides, the All Saints Chapel has just opened for the same purpose a few blocks away, and the Long View Center across Moore Square is only a few years old.

    But evidently there has been an explosion of demand for such places. So many young people are not members of churches, they need to rent beautiful and/or fun spaces for the biggest event in their lives. The City has rented out the Rose Garden and the Tucker House on Person St. for years, but these places have long been insufficient for the demand.

    The location is great for events like weddings; people from all over Wake County and possibly surrounding counties will want to have a wedding or reception in such a beautiful and happenin’ spot. It’s almost a “destination wedding,” which is the fashion these days. Perhaps they would have the wedding at the Long View Center and the reception at the City Market.

    My concern for the Greenshields space is that if there are only 100 events a year, that means the place is empty five days/evenings a week. Since most weddings only last a short time, the place might be empty more like six and a half days a week. I hope the managers can establish a price structure that encourages its use during the week, and I hope that the number of events is closer to 200 per year.

    The perfect use of the space was as it was when Greenshields occupied half of it, and there were a couple other cheap but interesting eateries. They were always full, and the place was a major destination. Greenshields went too far when he bought and renovated the whole space, then couldn’t quite get enough business to pay for it all.

  • DPK
    09/26 02:23 PM

    @Ken Metzger:
    Ignore Tony.  On every Raleigh blog I see him write the same thing.  Bulldoze [insert-building-name-here] and build a skyscraper.

  • jauerbach123
    09/26 02:31 PM

    Matthew - good points and I have NOT mentioned all the corporate events during the week that we are already talking to and booking. The discussion here was primarily about weddings so i kept it on that topic. We anticipate doing corporate events (day and evening) during the week and weddings, sweet 16’s, bar/bat mitsvahs on the weekends (sometimes multiple events a day. One of the things that will make our venue unique is the ability to host seated dinner (eating) events up to 350-400 people. Many of the other venues you mentioned can not hold groups that large. That was the main thing we heard over and over and over again - that there was no where unique and cool downtown to go to for special events!

  • sarah
    09/26 05:47 PM

    I am excited about the new use of the space. I think it is a great idea!

  • Al
    09/26 07:49 PM

    I think its a great idea too!!

  • arthurb3
    09/26 08:47 PM

    This is a beautiful historic building but local people do not support our local business. Instead that eat at places like Chilis!!

  • Horatio
    09/26 10:23 PM

    I wish anyone well in a new business, but for me personally until the restaurant is in place I can’t see that I would make much use of Cobblestone Hall since I probably won’t be part of any group that meets there. The public as a whole will get much more use out of the restaurant that will be available for everyone, not just a select group. Wonder when the restaurant will be up and running? It also needs to be open for lunch and dinner, not just evenings such as Rum Runners.

  • ChiefJoJo
    09/27 05:56 PM

    Hey, good news.  A downtown grocery store in that location isn’t viable right now.  Maybe in 5-10 years, but not now.  Everyone has their dream for this space:  Kings, local market, etc.  For me, it was a big local brewpub… like Greenshields, but better (think Foothills).  So long as there is activity in there, I think it will generally add something new to the mix at City Market.  Sure beats that long empty space just sitting there for another three years.

  • CJT
    09/27 10:45 PM

    CheifJoJo:

    “Hey, good news.  A downtown grocery store in that location isn’t viable right now.  Maybe in 5-10 years, but not now.”

    This specific location is going to be whatever the owner wants, but generally:

    Unless you have some scientific study to back that up, please don’t make statements such as that.  That is exactly the kind of ignorance that severely impedes good development.

    With the HUNDREDS of condominiums being completed as we speak and the hundreds more in planning stages, the need for downtown grocery stores (plural) is not only viable, it is necessity.

  • Woody
    09/28 04:57 PM

    CJT:
    Agreed.  I can’t wait for there to be a downtown grocery store.

  • ChiefJoJo
    09/28 05:17 PM

    CJT, The owner can do what he wants, but he’s not stupid.  I cannot site you a study, but there are simply not enough rooftops in downtown to warrant a grocery in the central city.  Most planners site 10,000 as the magic number, and we are not close yet.  Those “hundreds of condos” you speak of are a good start, but in case you haven’t noticed, we are in a recession, and most of the projects in the planning phase are on hold indefinitely.  Only Hue, which was financed pre-meltdown, is going to be complete in 2009, and there are a large number of empty condos, which will only add to the oversupply of units.  Long term, we will be fine, but short term, not so much.

    Don’t get me wrong, I live downtown, and want one as much as everyone, but trust me, a grocery won’t work now.  By the way, we already have one (sort of) with Capital Grocery plus Taz’s market.

  • CJT
    09/28 06:34 PM

    My last statement was made in general.  I did not call the owner stupid and am not saying this is an ideal space or location for a grocery store.  I would just rather see one before a(nother) event space.
    -
    Completed, under construction, or planned:  Founders Row, Quorum, The Paramount, The Dawson on Morgan, 510 Glenwood, Park Devereux, Palladium Plaza, 222 Glenwood, The Hudson, RBC Plaza, Bloomsbury Estates, RBC Plaza, West at North, Blount Street Commons, Boylan Flats, The Hillsborough, Charter Square, 630 North and many more unlisted.
    -
    None of these locations have a dedicated grocery store.  You say many units are unsold.  Perhaps NOT having a grocery store has something to do with that?
    -
    If Cameron Village’s Harris Teeter can be mobbed on a weekday evening (by working class folks, not students), there is no question a downtown grocery store could be supported by our existing population.  Not to mention the future population.
    -
    Again, I think your point of view does more harm than good.  Any development must happen mutually.  A population to support a grocery store cannot just be expected to happen without the grocery store in the first place. 
    -
    The real key to having a working grocery store downtown is having something scalable with competitive prices.  Nothing more, nothing less.
    -
    We are in a recession, but we’ll be out of it.  Right?  If we stop everything because of a recession, we’ll never get out of it.
    -
    We need other things, like a couple big name retail stores (Apple or H&M), technology headquarters (an RTP transplant/satellite), transportation hub, parking (a lot of which is on the way), etc etc. 
    -
    But a simple grocery store should come first, right?

  • downtown raleigh guy
    09/28 07:08 PM

    cjt
    you are right and wrong. the little convienience stores downtown BARELY make money currently, and people wonder why a grocery store has not been added yet. A lot of office space is being built but not a lot of residential yet. It IS going up and that is positive, but we are still 1-2 BIG downtown developments away from a dedicated supermarket downtown. And there IS space and will be more space with the other new buildings that are planned, but again we are talking 2-4 years down the line. the current residents will be fine with what there currently is and then things will keep expanding as the new projects are completed

  • CJT
    09/28 07:21 PM

    Capital City Grocery is not exactly thriving.  But, they’ve taken a stab at a market…and it’s not been a complete failure.  I think they went about it wrong and a grocery store can thrive. 
    -
    Convenience stores do not bring in family grocery shopping.  There is no comparison there. 
    -
    The sales of residential units must be effected significantly by the lack of a downtown grocery store (among other things).
    -
    You say we’re only 1 to 2 BIG downtown developments away from a dedicated supermarket?  What do you qualify as BIG?
    -
    Don’t ever tell me I’m wrong.  Just argue your point.

  • downtown raleigh guy
    09/28 07:35 PM

    I’ll post whatever I want to, as this is a blog and comments are just comments. Thanks Like I said you were “right and wrong”. I LIVE and work right downtown. I mean Wilmington Street, Fayettsville Street, Martin Street, Hargett Street area. I personally know the guys who own the convenience stores. I talk to them daily and we talk about them possibly opening larger grocery or food stores. Plain and simple the business is not there. They want to do it and have made that clear. And let’s be honest about Capital City Grocery - it is not in the right place and is almost hidden to some, AND why not go a mile up the road to the nicer Taj MaTeeter in Cameron Village. What I am talking about is literally a downtown supermarket like you see in DC or NYC. For example a supermarket that is in the bottom floor of the new RBC building or another one of the big ones that are scheduled to be built downtown on either side of the new parking deck that was just finished and goes from Martin Street to Wilmington Street. 2 new tall buildings are scheduled to be built on either side of that parking deck and one of them might be perfect for the store we are discussing. But again, will there be enough residential downtown to justify it by that time. I think yes there will be and that is when we will see one, in about 1-2 years and in conjunction with those 2 new buildings. if the Raleigh rescue mission moves as planned and that entire side of Moore Square park is turned in to residential as people have proposed, then having the store in one of those buildings will make sense as it will be in the middle of all of the residential.
    Just saying you want a supermarket downtown is fine, but it has to make sense and actually have a chance of succeeding, or all we will have is a big grand opening….and then possible an empty space a few months later when it goes out of business. Like I said, I live and work downtown and would love to see it, but I am also realistic about it.

  • CJT
    09/28 07:59 PM

    My office is at Salisbury and Hargett and most of my time is spent in and around Fayetteville Street.  So I’m similarly aquainted with the heart of Downtown Raleigh.
    -
    When to do a grocery store:  I’m saying now.  And you’re saying when the new big ones are underway. Charter Square is already under construction isn’t it? 
    -
    You agree with me.

  • downtown raleigh guy
    09/28 08:32 PM

    Charter Square across the street from the new Marriott is already moving forward and the big cranes are already up and construction is moving forward. That project is very promising and I could honestly see a traditional grocery store in that complex of buildings also. They say the entire project will take 1-2 years to complete. Hopefully during that time the 2 other buildings on either side of the parking deck will start construction AND everything on the Person Street side of Moore Square will become a reality. Moving the homeless building off the park and replacing the entire block with residential and new retail is very important. Directly behind it is where most of the new downtown residential will be and should be, especially as they continue to push further back the run down areas.
    Ultimately we are agreeing, and hopefully in the next 12-24 months we will see a supermarket downtown.

  • CJT
    09/28 08:42 PM

    Great that we’re on the same page.  I hope most everyone else is too.

  • Lisa Jeffries
    09/29 12:51 AM

    “the parking lot is partially owned by the city. Please keep that in mind. It IS over 3/4 full every single day and they sell parking spots there, so it is generating income for someone.”

    I can’t say that convenient parking would really detract from area. Parking decks are nice and handy, but let’s be honest, not all folks are within walking distance so close parking would encourage parking for shopping/dining and if the special events venue really does well for weddings, etc., there will almost always be older attendees or others with limited mobility who couldn’t easily walk from a deck to the venue anyhow - perfect example of how that back lot would prove very appreciated. Just food for thought…

  • 150
    09/29 03:05 PM

    CJT:
    Consider me another Downtown Raleigh resident who disagrees with you on the Supermarket idea.  I’ve posted in the Capital City threads previosly, but I just don’t think the demand is there yet.  Harris Teeter still leads the way in convenience (although I am embarrased to say that it involved the car, not a walk) due to their SELECTION.  I try to support Capital City, but they just don’t satisfy my shopping needs.  Often I have to make a second trip to HT to get everything.  Also, everything I’ve heard seems to suggest that CC isn’t exactly thriving.  I’m glad it’s there, but if it isn’t very successful yet, I don’t see the need for another supermarket in City Market. 
    CJT, you did a good job mentioning pretty much ALL of the condo projects as support for another supermarket, but I don’t think some of them are really good for your argument.  My personal experience tells me that people who end up in Bloomsbury will go to HT first.  I’d bet that 222 Glenwood, 730 Tucker, 630 North, etc, will also consider HT to be “their” supermarket. 
    A supermarket would be nice, but I think it’s years off as well.  I don’t think it hinders the condo market either.  People aren’t staying away because of a lack of supermarket. 
    All of this is just my opinion, of course.

  • jauerbach123
    09/29 03:38 PM

    Some updated info I have
    1) There are meetings this week about Moore Square renovations and all the buildings on the Person Street side of the park all becomeing residential building sin the future
    2) The current place for both sides of the new and finished parking deck that goes from Martin Street to Wilmington Street is 4 buildings. 2 on each site. The buildings on the Wilmington Street side being 30-40 stories and the buildings on the Martin street side being 20-30 stories. If this actually happens in the next 2-3 years that will be an incredible amount of new office space, residential and commercial space all the way around these 4 buildings.
    3) The work in City Market is moving nicely today with painters repainting all the buildings and the old awnings and lights being replaced.
    4) In our space (the old Greenshield’s building) where the back 2/3 will become Cobblestone Hall - full crews continue to work all day on the demo, removing all of the old flooring, walls, pipes, etc etc. Demo will continue for the next few weeks and then the new floors and work will begin for the Cobblestone Hall space. It is AWESOME to see how great the space is going to look soon.

  • CJT
    09/29 04:39 PM

    150:  Maybe you’re right.
    -
    Again, I think Capital City went about things in the wrong way.  I’ve dealt with a lot of different business types through my professional career.  I can tell you appearances account for a great deal (most of the time).  I think a grocery store downtown will have to appear similar to a commercial grocery store or actually be a commercial grocery store.
    -
    Even if driving from Bloomsbury, something near central downtown would be closer to the development than Cameron Village.  222 Glenwood might be closer to Cameron Village, but having a second option might be nice…especially if you’re riding home from a different direction or trying to avoid traffic.  As you said, having to drive to a grocery store is embarrassing (for downtown).  And even if Cameron Village was a little closer to the goings on, the whole development is not really that pedestrian friendly.  It’s just all wrong to me, all wrong to service Downtown Raleigh.  Even if it does have what one needs.
    -
    A Scenario:  In six months, a mid to small sized Harris Teeter opens up in central downtown (in an existing space so it may be moved as new spaces are built).  It’s supported by the Cameron Village HT and by normal deliveries.  In conjunction with the Cameron Village HT, it offers deliveries and online shopping for all of downtown.  The central downtown HT can be scaled down at first and gradually up-fitted and stocked to accommodate the changing demands of downtown.  That probably sounds complicated to some, but it’s really not.  And more than likely, similar setups have been implemented in cities at similar stages of development.  Perhaps it would thrive and quicken the residential heartbeat?  ‘Just a thought.
    -
    Saying “in a few years” isn’t that far from “in a year.”  A year in developmental terms is the blink of an eye.  So that’s almost as good as saying now.

  • NC Scoop
    09/30 04:24 AM

    In regards to the combination of parking and the “if” of it being successful as a grocery store.

    As a citizen who lives in downtown Raleigh and does not drive, I do not have to worry about parking. With that said, Capital City Grocery automatically becomes a very inconvenient trek with bag loads of groceries. Its good for the northern edge downtowners, but not for the Fayetteville/ Moore Sq. residents. I also believe that one of the biggest benefits to downtown living is less of a need to drive. I believe a downtown grocery store would need to exist to make that sort of lifestyle more feasible.

    With RBC Plaza’s 140 condo units, The Hudson’s 64 units, Palladium Plaza’s 66 units, Carlton Place’s 80 units, Founder’s Row’s 48 units, Charter Square’s 120+ units, and The Edison’s possible 320 to 640 units. That’s between 840 to 1150 condo units in a VERY close proximity. Although I know not all units are sold out and not all buildings have been built yet, the demand for a downtown grocery store is growing.

    We’ll definitely need a good, affordable grocery store with a large selection in the downtown area soon, something like Harris Teeter. I definitely think that such a large grocery chain can take a gamble like that and would also draw in more customers than a privately owned grocery store. Most of the time, a chain grocery store will have a larger selection with more affordable prices.

    And in regards to City Market’s produce market possibly hitting some rough bumps in sales… they are only open three days out of the week and when not open, you’d hardly even notice their existence. I hadn’t been to that market in over a decade up until recently. I have some very vague childhood memories of that space that only prompted me to look into if they were still open or not. Point is, I think that if I was new to Raleigh and not really in the loop about downtown, I would never know that the place even existed! I don’t think that the produce market is a great example of how a downtown grocery store would fair here. Don’t get me wrong, I love the produce market though! :D

  • go go girl
    09/30 12:29 PM

    As I understand things the net profits for food retailers is one of the lowest in the retail field - relying on volume of sales rather than mark-up. Obviously Capital City is relying on mark-up and people vote with their feet (or cars).

    I feel it’s unreasonable to expect any entrepreneur to take on more risk then they feel comfortable with just so someone else’s life can be more convenient. And if the major chains thought it would be profitable they would already be there by now.

     

    It is a fabulous building with great character and it has been unfortunate for Raleigh that it has sat empty for so long.

     

    I just hope whatever materializes they go back to selling beer from the backdoor during First Fridays. : )

     

  • Deep South
    09/30 07:13 PM

    While everyone is talking about Moore Square… I thought I would pass along the dates for Downtown Live next year:
    May 30, June 13, June 27, July 11, July 25, August 8, and August 22, 2009 -  Tell your brides to get married a different weekend or come party with us in the park!!  :)

  • Ryan
    09/30 08:29 PM

    Art Space is a great venue (Art Space) for weddings and functions located on the other side of this building.  If you walk a whole block across Moore Square,  Longview Center and Marbles are availble.  If you take a left out of the old Greenshields and go approximately two blocks you have All Saints Chapel (or St. Greg’s Chapel).  The area is also surrounded by historic churches.  Raleigh is not hurting for event space.  This project will just further scatter the events and allow us all to enjoy dark windows and dreams of thoughtful planning. Awesome.

  • jauerbach123
    09/30 08:50 PM

    All the locations you mnetioned are great places, but smaller. And Marbles, while now an incredible and fun kids museum, is so much a kids museum that it no longer works for many corporate events and weddings. We know because they are all calling us. Our new venue will hold up to 375-400 seated and 500+ for cocktail receptions. In one week we have had over 40 inquiries for events in the first 1/2 of 2009 because the groups are to large for the other places you mentioned. With no advertising or promotion at all the phone is ringing off the hook for social events on the weekends AND corporate events during the week. The goal is still 150-250 events a year, which will be awesome. All the bars, restaurants and stores in the area have also voiced the same excitement. More info to come as we have it!

  • Ryan
    09/30 11:03 PM

    Marbles website states that it has 84,000 square feet “suited to a casual gathering, a celebration of friends, or the most elegant ball”.  Guess they are not doing this anymore? 

    If you guys are going to be in this wonderful and prime location, I wish you the best of luck.  I guess your event space is better than what is there right now.

  • jauerbach123
    09/30 11:09 PM

    Ryan - I am an event planner and I have a kid who LOVES MARBLES. When it was Explorus it was more set up like a museum and many corporate events and weddings happened there. While it is still a beautiful building it is now completely a play area for kids. It has toys and characters, and fun stuff EVERYWHERE. MY SON LOVES THE PLACE and we go 2-3 times a month (I have to admit I have a lot of fun there also). they still do events and we are considering having our son’s 2nd birthday party there.

  • RealDowntowner
    10/01 05:50 PM

    Isn’t this attached to Rum Runners? I know they have a “corporate event” company.  I am curious to see what comes out of this.

  • Sallie
    10/01 07:38 PM

    Yes - “jauerbach” is the VP of Rum Runners, USA, I do believe.

  • jauerbach123
    10/01 07:54 PM

    You are correct. I am Vice President of Rum Runners Usa (the Rum Runners chain) and Showtime Events (corporate special events company that is also doing Cobblestone Hall). Our offices are downtown and we have been long time supporters of everything downtown and all the growth.

  • Tom
    10/04 12:07 AM

    TThis link to an N&O article has some comments ffrom the City Market owner. He says he hopes to hhave a restaurant open in part of the space, so aall is not lost. Interesting how the GGreenshield’s owner says he would would have sstayed after the fire, if only the owner had ffixed the leaky roof. Bummer.

    http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/1231479.html

  • Gary
    11/01 12:39 PM

    I ate breakfast at Big Ed’s today and was wondering what the current store is on this space.

  • Johnny
    11/06 12:16 AM

    Raleigh could use a real place for dancing. Greenshields used to have a nice dance hall attached to it. It would be nice to see that aspect return.

    beers out the backdoor sounds fun too.

  • ncsugirl
    06/29 03:16 PM

    How much is the space renting out for on say, a saturday night?
    the cobblestone website does not list this information ANYWHERE - unless i am blind.

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