Sunday, November 08, 2009

Politics

Downtown Noise: The Debate Continues

Downtown Noise: The Debate Continues

When living in a downtown of a city, there are a few things to realize:

1. There will be homeless people wandering the streets near your residence.
2. Construction cranes never leave the skyline.
3. Cities are noisy.

For some reason, many of the “new American downtowns” that have developed within the recent (last 10-15 years) past find these kind of things annoying, especially the last one; noise. While it is easy to understand that noise should have limits it is also easy to understand that dealing with the noise also has its limits. So first it was the trains (which we found a solution for) and now it’s the downtown businesses that are bothering residents.

The solution? Slap the businesses with a couple of fines (which can be contested) and call it a day. This will be a tough road for a city that is almost solely entertainment focused (bars, music venues and restaurants) at night. I’m sure this won’t satisfy those who have relocated to the grid and are accustomed to the silence of suburbia. There is an upper limit for any noise, but the funny part is that this isn’t even about loud bands projecting from music venues, it’s about general noise from restaurants and bars.

What about the Mobile Dance Party, does it need a permit too? I guess it was a good thing for Solas to get a jump start on the permit.

Changes to the noise ordinance, which took effect July 1, allow police to assess civil fines for violations, starting at $100 per day for a first offense and $300 per day for additional offenses within 12 months. People have the opportunity to appeal a fine to an arbitrator. Previously, police could charge someone with a misdemeanor for violating the noise ordinance.

The permit aims to educate downtown business owners so that they know when music is too loud and how long music can be played.

from WRAL

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  • matt w11/09 05:48 PM

    Welcome back New Raleigh!


    I like how this article picked up where the old NR left off, by taking passive-aggressive swipes at anyone that lives (or in this case lived?) in the suburbs.  “I’m sure this won’t satisfy those who have relocated to the grid and are accustomed to the silence of suburbia.”


    Just to get this straight—when people that live downtown complain, that’s the fault of those awful Brier Creekers and their ilk.  Got it.

  • Bruce DeBoer11/09 06:04 PM

    Mo Rocca had a great piece on Noise for those who have yet to see it:

    http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5578396n&tag=api

  • JZ11/09 08:34 PM

    Two thoughts come to mind reading this piece:

    1.  Up until the last few years, by my observation, traffic and noise were more substantial in the suburbs than in Downtown on the weekends.  Now I would suggest that they are perhaps equal.  It’s the biggest joke upon all those sprawl-heads out there….
    2.  While walking with my 6 month old son this morning through Oakwood Park, Mordecai and Oakdale, I observed one only pesky noise maker: a FedEx truck.  I was struck at how tranquil it really was less than 2 miles from the State Capitol.
    3. I can hear the NC State Fair fireworks from my house near the Oakwood Dogpark and I LOVE it.

  • jz11/09 09:52 PM

    also, people in downtown can’t count….at least i can’t….sheez…

  • Jess11/10 03:00 PM

    i don’t think downtown is noisy at all..it’s actually pleasant compared to other larger cities…if you don’t like nightlife…don’t move into the middle of it…
    just like the people that buy homes beside the traintracks and complain about trains…geez…

  • JeffS11/10 05:09 PM

    Has anyone actually read the new noise ordinance? All I can find is worthless “news” blurbs with no details and people who probably haven’t read it complaining.

  • arthurb311/11 11:08 AM

    Leaf blowers. Hate them. Raking the yard or sweeping the sidewalks is a great way to get exercise instead of blowing them around.

  • John11/11 11:13 AM

    I live on the backside of one of Glenwood South’s blocks.  The ONLY noise that bothers me is the occasional un-muffled motorcycle that roars down Boylan Ave at 2AM.  Frankly, this sort of noise should have nothing to do with DT but rather the city’s tolerance for vehicles without mufflers.
    IMO, Solas’ request is not unreasonable. The amount of ambient noise on Glenwood Ave in the evenings will more than mitigate any music that comes from Solas. Didn’t they request for that permit up until just 11PM?  Please…that’s nothing.  The steet is hopping up til 2AM. 
    The noise in Glenwood South is sort of like the mall at Christmas.  If one stands and tried to listen to the noise, it’s hard to make out anything specific except for the occasional un-muffled and honking cars, trucks and cycles that cruise down the strip.

  • miamiblue11/11 11:44 AM

    I agree with John here. I, too, live on a side street just off Glenwood. The “noise” from living in such an area is more akin to white noise, something that just becomes part of the background. Even the train whistles that I can hear inside my apartment several times a day (including through the night) have become part of the ambient sound in my life that I do not “hear” anymore.


    I’ve occasionally been able to hear percussion from live bands inside Amra’s when their doors are open, but it’s nothing that can’t be drowned out by some music or a fan. In other words, it has never kept me from sleeping, which is my litmus test for problematic noise.


    I think that a permit that allows outdoor music until 11 pm in this area is reasonable. The city’s nuisance noise ordinances cover general noise from house parties, etc. up until 11 pm as well. I’m very familiar with this one, having lived next to partying State students who thought 3am on a Tuesday was a good time be loud and drunk outside people’s windows.

  • RaleighRob11/11 11:53 AM

    The buildings that mix bars/dining with residential really should have been built with better soundproofing.  Or in the case of a few I’ve seen, put a few floors of offices as a buffer between the bottom businesses and the higher residential floors.  (Like RBC plaza.)  The Hudson is one example I’m thinking of here that didn’t do as good of a job with this factor, based on earlier reports of residents dealing with noise from Yanceys below.

    Other than those mixed-use buildings, noise downtown isn’t all that bad.  That is, if you are one with reasonable expectations of road, siren or train sounds.

  • 15011/11 12:43 PM

    Newraleigh, can’t we see the parallel here between the complainers mentioned above with what Solas is doing?

    I think most people, including myself, who have spent time living downtown accept the perceived negatives about that choice of residence (including the homeless, cranes, and noise) as part of the deal.  Obviously, the benefits outweighed any negatives.  Heck, I think the noise of the train, even when it hitches at 3am, is pleasureable, but that’s irrelevant. 

    However, just because someone lives downtown does not mean that they don’t have the right to “complain”, have a tolerance limit, or have an opinion regarding how the city moves forward.  Just in the case of other subjects that are drooled over around here (architecture, “art”, public spaces, politics), people should voice their opinion if they want input on their city’s changes, right?

    If downtown residents, who live there willingly, should just accept things because they chose to live there, then shouldn’t Solas be accepting of Raleigh’s resistance to their adding music, as Solas chose to move down to Glenwood?  For me, this isn’t even about noise.  I think it’s fantastic that Solas wants to do something that could be fun and increase business/atmosphere, and they are smart to seek it, but if their established neighbors and neighborhood (Raleigh) don’t go for it, then Solas shouldn’t get too upset. 

    People who live downtown made a choice, and yes, that demands a level of acceptance of what that choice means.  Although that choice was made knowing that things will change, it doesn’t mean that they can’t resist a change they don’t like.  Similarly, if the new guy makes a choice to move in, that demands a level of acceptance of the neighbors rules and values.

  • Tico11/11 05:32 PM

    I lived on the 700 block of Glenwood for about a year.  By far the biggest noise problem came from extremely loud motorcycles who always felt the urge to goose it up every time they drove by the people standing outside Mellow Mushroom.  Take away those douchebags on motorcyles and I found all the other city noises to be quite enjoyable.

  • matt w11/11 07:45 PM

    If I had the option, I would personally pay for a few hours of a police officer’s salary to put a car on the other side of Peace and Glenwood across from MoJoe’s/Mushroom and just pick off dickhead motorcyclists on Friday nights.  This is under the condition that they are taken back and written the ticket right at the intersection, so people can laugh at the rider while he’s getting written up.  The comedy potential is enormous.

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