Five Points: Changing Faces?

erin
11/10 09:44 PM

you mean this?

http://www.renderinghouse.com/images/Commerical/C PerpWC/FivePoints-lg.jpg

RaleighRob
11/10 11:51 PM

I guess it was bound to happen.  Five Points is just about the only major ITB area not to have gotten some major rework lately, except for Piggly Wiggly’s transformation into NoFo.  Other than that, it’s practically the same as it was 20 years ago, building-wise. 
The drawing Erin posts doesn’t look bad so far.  (Except that they appear closer to the street making the parking parallel instead of diagonal, which so many frequent visitors of that block love.)
We’ll see, I guess.

Sclemons
11/11 01:43 AM

If the redevelopment of these parcels structurally resembles what is shown in the rendering, it would add much-needed retail mass in Hayes Barton, and would create a more cohesive streetscape along Fairview. But it will remain an isolated half-block of retail and restaurant space in a sea of single-family dwellings.

Hayes Barton may become more urban than it currently is, but it will never become truly urban. Just look at how much asphalt there is in the middle of that intersection. Look at the suburban strip center across Glenwood or the suburban office building next to Nofo. Hayes Barton church occupies a huge chunk of real estate that won’t be redeveloped in our lifetimes. Perhaps worse, neighborhood groups in that area are becoming increasingly hostile to redevelopment proposals of any sort. Community Scale supporters have specifically referred to multistory condo buildings as the worst-case scenario for redevelopments in their neighborhoods.

Here’s hoping that the project illustrates the need for and the sensibility of pedestrian-oriented multistory infill in Hayes Barton.

Bobby Lewis
11/12 04:19 PM

Please go to NC Signature monthly & read the Quirky Five Points article.

Phil
11/12 07:23 PM

Bobby,

Is this online somewhere?  Did a quick google search and can’t find the article you’re referring to.

Sam
11/12 08:20 PM

I don’t think conventional definitions of urbanity apply here. I happen to live downtown in a dense residential area, but I wouldn’t consider it to be entirely “urban” because I have to drive to get to a grocery store. How we define urbanity in Raleigh should reflect the potential to be active in a community without a car. Granted 5 Points is somewhat of an elite community, but creating more dense housing near the center of 5 points will ideally give opportunity for those that aren’t in the same income range as the average 5 points resident an ability to participate in a community typically reserved for those that can afford million dollar homes. I say ideally because most developers don’t think this way and are probably targeting retiree’s from the 5 points community or people in the same income bracket.
However positive the likely to be botched attempts at social equity may be I think the character that 5 points offers will be effected negatively. The current shops will not be able to afford rent in the mixed use building that replace the existing homes, the new building will have to provide lots of parking which is already an issue in this area, and architecturally it will be a cheap attempt at simulating something old and will look like most of the developments we have seen offering little else than the clout of a 5 points address.

erin
11/12 08:22 PM

http://raleighmsa.com/newProjects-raleigh.html

link to pic.  its bigger than is posted in the comment.

nate
11/12 08:46 PM

I say densify, that will eliminate the need for sprawl, if the developer can find people to lease the space in that particular area, then re-development of an existing site is very good for the environment, the economy, and for social exchange.  If these three houses remain, the demand for more development remains, therefore a virgin, or greenfield site would have to be picked, which is not good for the environment, nor is it good for the economy (farmable land will be paved), and not good socially (places of good economic stature will deteriorate and move to the new development).

Cities grow all the time, buildings are constantly leveled for newer, bigger, better buildings.  The economy will be able to absorb higher dollars per sqaure foot, I mean, how much can rent cost here?  certianly not $40/s.f.  Most retail centers in larger cities pay anywhere from $40-$150 s.f. 

People always recognize good business, and their patronage will not be lost to some globalized buisness, at least I don’t think the good people of Raleigh would dime out their pizza joint for Papa John’s (although they do make a damn good dipping sauce)

Development is good, just be happy that your economy can support it, remember when all those mills closed down and moved to china…

freshsqueze
11/12 10:11 PM

I would support this project in terms of its density and relationship to the street… but there are several unanswered questions regarding the scheme.  I don’t know of any zoning ordinance in Raleigh that would allow a building THAT close to the street.  Most zones that would accept this type of building require a setback of thirty feet at the very least.  Parking is already a problem in this area, as Sam pointed out, so unless there is an absurd amount of asphalt behind this building (is there enough area to accommodate the required number of parking spaces for this many square feet?) this scheme wouldn’t pass.  Also, the building looks like it would come damn close if it doesn’t break the forty foot height limit with four stories. 

Our current zoning ordinances in this country hamper perfectly plausible visions for projects such, as this one, all the time.  Hopefully this will not be an example of that.

Sclemons
11/13 12:41 AM

Zoning and height limitations aren’t really in the way. They can get conditional use rezoning before they go in for site plan submittal. It’s not a big deal.

RaleighRob
11/13 02:55 PM

Freshsqueeze- Yeah that was basically what I was saying.  I think if they pushed it back a bit, to create the diagonal parking that is already found on that side of the street, then they can fit more cars to bring in customers for those businesses.  Then they’d basically have reserved spots somewhere in the back for the residences and maybe a little overflow area. 
As it is now, people going to Five Points businesses already do some creative parking, whether it’s taking up the right lane on Glenwood, parallel parking on the side streets, or after-hours in the Wachovia and Post Office lots.  People always seem to find a way.

Jones
11/15 04:48 PM

I will just skip analysis of this proposal and simply point out that the current strip between First Citizens and the PO is all one story and begs to have some apartments or offices built over them first. Side note, the diverse living options in 5-points were decidedly reduced when Whitaker Park Apartments were leveled recently. So much for the late 90’s funky…ah miss the Stingray too…Hayes Barton Baptist also leveled a cool c.1914 original Vangaurd Community house for its addition. So much for that piece of back woods original buildout….

Matthew Brown
01/04 05:23 PM

The three houses pictured are not the three owned by Bobby Lewis and Raleigh Development. He owns the second and third house pictured, and then next one to the northwest on Fairview. The fabulous Tudor Revival “Cinderella House” is still owned by Five Points Properties. It has been purposely neglected recently, but it was beautiful when the photo at wakegov.com was taken. With all the ugly one-story buildings, including three gas stations, at the center of Five Points, it is beyond me why we should allow the demolition of these beautiful historic houses. The dominoes will begin to fall on Fairview Rd., one of Raleigh’s most beautiful and architecturally distinctive streets.

I love density, but it is not an altar to be worshipped at. There are other values to consider, like character, beauty, history and architectural heritage.

freshsqueze
01/04 05:47 PM

These three houses are all certainly owned by Raleigh Development Company. 

You are correct in saying that the “Cinderella House,” has purposefully been neglected, but please note that it was not by Five Points Properties, who owns the adjacent post office parcel.

FishPaste
12/03 05:41 PM

can’t understand why you’d want to tear down those homes and put up what’s in that sketch up there.

What about that section across the street where the drugstore/audiovisual shop?  that looks like a better place in regards to the overall layout of five points to place it,  expanding across glennwood to make it the five points area more urban looking if that’s what you’re going for as opposed to concentrating everything in one easily walkable outdoor mall.

maybe it’s cuz he already owns the real estate but he should really reconsider.

smitty
12/03 07:17 PM

Don’t worry fish, the article is three years old, and nothing happened.

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