Hillsborough and Morgan Street Roundabout Hearing

There will be a public hearing Wednesday, August 15th at 5:00 p.m. to review the preliminary roundabout design for the intersection of Morgan and Hillsborough St.

The roundabout is part of a greater project that will convert Morgan Street to a two-way street.

During the first hour of the meeting, the design consultant PBS&J and city staff will be available to answer questions. There will be maps displaying the projects’ preliminary design and scope. After the first hour there will be a brief project overview.

Those attending will also be given a project informational handout on which you can make comments to submit either at the meeting or by mail.

The meeting will be in downtown Raleigh at 222 W. Hargett Street in the Avery C. Upchurch Municipal Complex, room 305.

This is a great opportunity to not only review the plans but to voice any concerns about the project, such as the issue of bicycle accessibility that has been discussed on here previously.

actionUnit08/14 03:15 PM

I think putting a roundabout there would be great- I actually use it as one already to make a U turn back up Hillsborough.

Barden08/14 03:17 PM

Thanks for the link Chad. I’ll try to make it!

RDUwtf08/14 06:45 PM

As mentioned in the TTA post, the universities should be more involved in developing public transportation in the area - the ratio of students to available parking spaces makes this a necessity. Designing the Main St. of the University without proper bicycle access is so shortsighted it’s almost unbelievable. It encourages the unwanted traffic and discourages desirable behavior. People should riot.

Robert E Leebowitz

Barden08/14 07:30 PM

Improving that intersection would bring new life to that area…or at least help.

Walking across Morgan St is downright deadly at that intersection. Adding a traffic circle would give people medians to stand on, and a more direct view of traffic.

RaleighRob08/15 12:49 AM

Barden makes a good point there about pedestrian safety. West Morgan Street can be risky to cross…not just at that intersection but down by the Irregardless/Goodnights block. Maybe a roundabout will help slow things down there.
Also, finishing the two-way street of West Morgan would make sense. Currently, it’s only two-way from Dawson to St. Mary’s. I can’t tell you the number of people who were going down Morgan headed west out of downtown and when they get to the St. Mary’s intersection, they either slam their brakes realizing they have to turn either left or right…...or they keep going! Wrong way on a one-way street. Very dangerous. Glad this will be fixed.

erin08/15 02:57 PM

i have always felt that roundabouts are not appropriate for hillsborough st. they slow traffic, but cars are never required to come to a complete stop. in fact its discouraged—you should always yield unless you want to be rear-ended.

im going to try to make this mtg, thanks for posting about it! im also a fairly new reader and i really enjoy your posts. thanks for keeping me informed!

r o b08/15 03:14 PM

I am in agreement. I have never felt that a roundabout is a good traffic solution….ever. They mostly cause confusion for drivers because you are anticipating what other motorists are doing instead of following set right of way rules…which to be honest, I am really not sure I could tell you what those are.
Hasn’t anyone ever seen European Vacation? (haha, that should be proof enough)

Chad08/15 03:21 PM

Thanks for the kind words Erin.

As is apparent with most development issues, there are pros and cons for whichever perspective you are coming from. Of course many drivers are autocentrist and believe they shouldn’t be slowed down. Considering this situation I would argue that it wouldn’t slow down traffic if the roundabouts are used properly. The way drivers have to navigate through the Hillsborough/Morgan St. “intersection” now is pretty awkward. I believe a roundabout will make this area more fluid. Right now there is that weird little angled turn heading towards downtown, and drivers have to wait to turn onto Morgan.

From a pedestrian’s perspective, this is an absolutely disgusting area to try to get through if you’re trying to walk on the south side of Hillsborough St. heading downtown. The options are to walk along the median or else run across the blind spot of Morgan.

Considering the amount of peds going to and from N.C. State, Cameron Village, Glenwood South or any other destination I believe a roundabout will encourage pedestrian traffic and will give a greater sense of safety to the area.

Also turning Morgan St. into a two-way street will alleviate some of the heavy traffic on Hillsborough Street heading away from downtown.

I think if any situation is calling for a roundabout then this is the one to address.

Chad08/15 03:30 PM

The right of way rules for a roundabout are simple. Upon approaching the roundabout, yield to the car approaching from your left. If no car is coming, or the car to you left is turning, you can go on through.

Here is a link to some more info about roundabout use and benefits.

Roundabout info

erin08/15 03:31 PM

its a case of anything is better than status quo. this area def. needs to be addressed. i am interested in why a stoplight can’t be put in? hopefully i learn more about it tonight!

RaleighRob08/15 05:03 PM

Erin- the way I understand it, the way Morgan splits at a diagonal angle from Hillsborough would make a stoplight there pretty akward.
Plus, with the stoplight at Ashe Ave only a few hundred feet away, they’d have to configure the whole thing up in a way very similar to the Glenwood/Anderson/St.Mary’s/Lassiter stoplight intersection. If you’re familiar with that one, you could understand why city engineers would avoid it like the plague!

Barden08/15 05:03 PM

In reference to Rob’s comment, I agree with you, but road construction should be designed about people’s inability to obey regular traffic laws. How does the saying go? “Ignorance is no excuse”

Cindy08/15 09:34 PM

I like the idea of the roundabouts. I think that any plan to improve Hillsborough St. is a great plan. It is just plain butt-ugly and difficult to drive along, let alone be a pedestrian to cross it.

Roudabouts are used at Hilton Head (in SC) and I think they work well. Sure, you have a lot of folks who don’t use their turn signals, but overall, it slows people down. And, they’re not ugly ole intersections.

Michael08/15 11:39 PM

like rob, I doubt roundabouts are the best choice for this area. I totally agree with the sentiment that they alone will not make the situation much better for people or bikes. The constant traffic flow coupled with confusion of people not understanding who has the right-of-way is more likely to cause injuries.

I think a scaled down version of the original Hillsboro street plan could make some sense. Roundabouts at Oberlin, maybe Horne, and Dixie Tr. could be useful in mediating the annoying misalignment of those streets while also providing a gateway to what is the main pedestrian area along the street, and a turnaround for people to aloow people to return to the main retail area to look for street parking. If you add to that narrowed lines and medians along with signaled crosswalks at other minor streets I think cars would be encouraged to slow down or use an alternate route. The signals would then stop vehicles and give pedestrians a clear right-of-way.

The Morgan intersection would probably be best served by making Morgan street more perpendicular to hillsborough, losing the right turn yield and adding a signal with crossing signals at each corner.

go go girl08/16 11:12 AM

I think the entire Hillsborough Street area will be improved by the addition of the roundabouts. The more the merrier. I also feel that confusion and lack of familiarity with roundabout procedure / techniques is not a suitable reason to dismiss a design concept.

Hillsborough Street should be a destination. Wade Ave. and Western Blvd. will pick up the direct “beltline to downtown” blow-through traffic. While the traffic does not stop it is slowed to a level that makes it safer all around.

Now if they would only talk about burying the &*%$# utilities.

RaleighRob08/16 01:32 PM

Michael—true, but moving Morgan to a right angle with Hillsborough would wipe out at least one of those historical houses on that corner, maybe more. So I kinda doubt the city would pursue that option.

Michael08/16 02:28 PM

I totally agree that Hillsborough street should be the destination and I do agree with the contention that the addition of several roundabouts will add beauty to several otherwise unattractive areas of the street. I was primarilay trying to point out that they are not necessarily the solution to making the street pedestrian friendly. The primary purpose of roundabouts is, in fact, to move traffic in all directions in a continuous flow, which I think we can all agree is not the goal for these locations. They will cause traffic to slow below the 45-50 mph but pedestrians will still have to take the leap to step out in front of moving traffic in the hopes that the traffic is paying attention and will stop for them. The confusion of who has the right of way only adds to this danger. I would also contend that a design concept that causes confusion and is potentially dangerous to its users is absolutely a reason to reevaluate the concept, unless of course confusion is the goal of the design. There are plenty of examples of traffic calming measures that are successful without roundabouts. The first that comes to mind is Spring Garden Street at the UNCG camous in Greensboro. Narrower lanes, raised crossings (typically with signals), and textured paving cause cars to slow down. Fewer and narrower lanes are crucial.

As for the Morgan Street intersection, There would be no need to eliminate houses to make the intersection more perpendicular. I was mostly trying to say that the turn from Hillsborough to Morgan should require a stop, in other words the right turn shouldn’t be so soft. Maybe it wouldn’t have to be exactly 90 degrees.

erin08/17 12:18 PM

this is not exactly a question about this post, but its related:

can someone please explain why the city is changing all the east-west streets in downtown to two-way traffic? what problem is it solving/how? i’ve been trying to figure it out but i just don’t see why its necessary. is there some precedent city where this happened successfully? thanks in advance!

go go girl08/17 12:50 PM

Someone coming from a traffic culture that has incorporated roundabouts for a length of time is not �confused� by roundabouts - they are familiar with the concept, the rules and the expectations.

Believing that the roundabout learning curve is too great and that any subsequent �confusion� is not worth the hassle is one thing � deciding that the learning curve is irrelevant because the �confusion� is a consequence of poor design is another.

I feel that any �confusion� is derived from unfamiliarity � not poor design.

RaleighRob08/17 12:52 PM

Erin—My guess is that it comes to a couple of points. One, it makes things less confusing to people trying to find their way around. One of the biggest gripes among people who aren’t downtown-savvy is that they get lost amongst the oneway streets. Two, it may make traffic better in some places…ie, you don’t have to drive an extra block to turn around and come back up another street to go the opposite direction.

Two of the east-west streets have been two-way for some time: Davie and Cabarrus. The recent transformation of Martin & Hargett (and a small part of West Morgan already) to two-way has helped in those areas, in my opinion at least. I think they also plan to do Lenoir & South, but only after the convention center is finished and Fayetteville Street is extended to Lenoir.
Some streets may be more difficult to do…particularly Edenton and East Morgan, since they are the result of New Bern Ave being split. And Lane & Jones will probably have to be coordinated with the state, given the legislative building and such. We’ll see.

erin08/17 01:07 PM

thanks, raleighbob. i really get tired of all this pandering to people who never come to downtown. i feel like the city can put infinite parking decks, directional signs on every corner, and pack in as many destination shops, restaurants, and bars as they can but those same people will still find some excuse to not come down. (thats my opinion and i also feel these roundabouts are an easy target for that excuse).

sorry for the pessimistic post; i DO appreciate the extra attention, and overall, it will improve the downtown area for those of us who visit/live in downtown….i’ll be satisfied and shut my mouth once things pick up and im proven wrong!

robo08/17 01:08 PM

All the streets are two-way if you’re walking!

As far as roundabouts go, if people don’t like them, they can just drive their Hummers right through the middle—usually a good way to deal with something you don’t understand.

Russ Wollman12/11 11:46 PM

Until the City of Raleigh figures out�coupled with new choices residents must make�how to make life without driving everywhere for every need possible, these little ideas about circles and beautifying the area, etc., are useless shots in the dark.

Raleigh has already degenerated into a network of roads for people to drive through the place on their way to some far corner of it. It is no longer a livable city with a human dimension and works only to perpetuate the auto/oil based American way of life, a non-culture whose days are surely numbered.

New thinking is needed, and badly. But don’t expect it from government. Everyone has to take it upon themselves to assess what would make life better, what quality of life means other than driving one’s time away in search of the newest restaurant and hot spot.

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Chad Tuesday, August 14, 2007