No Sitting? No Tact.
Alright, there’s a better way to discourage people from sitting on a perfectly at-sitting-level wall. I know someone owns this special wall, and has every right to spray paint whatever message they want on it. Of course, we’re all about private property rights here in Raleigh. So screw those who might rest their private asses on a private wall.
The context of this wall is probably important to note. It’s at a private building next to a group home on Snow Ave just off Morgan St. Draw your own conclusions.
So, if anyone else is considering building a prime sitting ledge along a public sidewalk, here are some more sensitive ways to discourage persons from resting on your private ledge.
1. Plant shrubs that hang completely over the wall. Most regular folks don’t like to sit on woody hedges.
2. Build the wall so that it is not at optimum sitting height. If people have to jump or climb up onto it they’ll probably be discouraged from sitting on it in the first place. Might as well sit on the sidewalk.
3. Have the mason create an angled wall top. This way sitters will just slide off and back onto the sidewalk. It will be awkward and surprising for them but they won’t know you did it by design. It might even evoke that special classy wall look that will surely increase property value—and who doesn’t want that?
4. Use your petroleum jelly and coat that thing down. Not only will scary people slide off the wall but rain and snow won’t cling to it as well. How dare those natural elements intrude on your private property.
Any of these solutions would create a better neighborhood vibe than spray painting “NO SITTING” on a wall—but really it shouldn’t matter if someone is sitting on someone’s planter. A vibrant community is not supported by isolation and fear.
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RaleighRob
05/07 01:27 PM
That is certainly odd. Where is that??
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Chad
05/07 02:23 PM
Snow Ave. and Hargett St. off of Morgan.
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Michael
05/07 02:53 PM
i think the bigger question is, who the hell cares if someone sits there. Way to foster a happy street environment. New ordinance, no sitting…anywhere..
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Rusty
05/07 03:16 PM
Why not just plant thorny plants?
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Dana
05/07 05:23 PM
Those bright orange letters are really ugly, and they only communicate the idea to someone who can read, and can read English. I like the idea of the overflowing plants. That sends a universal message while looking pretty.
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Drew
05/07 06:09 PM
Let’s meet there for lunch and stand on that wall.
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Jason Sullivan
05/07 06:10 PM
I’ve also seen a pointy top, similar to the angled top, and a top as a row of little pyramids.
But if you’re going to be all institutional with the gray spray paint and orange stenciled letters, why have a touchy-feely “planter” at all? Just a sheer, gray, high wall.
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Christopher Triplett
05/07 06:35 PM
How about the wall?
It probably looks a lot better with rear ends covering it up. With the lettering on it, seems like pure humor.
-CJT
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Baron
05/07 07:25 PM
So what happens if someone actually sits on the wall? It would probably be the same result if they didnt paint “No Sitting”: Someone would come out and say, “Dont sit on the wall.” I doubt police are going to enforce “wall sitting” just because it has been stenciled.
I think they should have put some nice benches out front with “No Sitting” painted on them, instead. That is about the only more confusing thing that they could have done.
I do like the prison gray color they have chosen, however.
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Robert E Leebowitz
05/07 08:10 PM
It’s not just a “group home” it’s a halfway house for ex -convicts with substance abuse problems and also, I believe, a methadone clinic. Tenants are locked out during the day to encourage them to seek jobs, or work, but many sit outside all day, drink, panhandle, pass out in the bushes and accost passers by. The sprayed on lettering seems friendlier to me than adding pointy features to the lip of the wall. The design firm that purchased that building probably didn’t know what they were getting into.
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Faith
05/08 12:44 PM
More sensitive and more aesthetically pleasing.
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Noodle
05/08 12:46 PM
This reminds me of the time I got a ticket for being in a prone position while enjoying a nice lunch on Moore’s square. There is actually a city ordinance prohibiting lounging in a prone position on Moore’s square. Granted, I had been fairly warned several times before getting the ticket, but I had to keep “proning” based on principle. Beautiful NC spring day in a city park… why have a park if you prohibit people from relaxing on it.
Anyway, I can understand their reluctance in having a lot of people sitting on their wall waiting for the halfway house to open… not great for business and could make for awkwardness when you walk the sidewalk… however, they might as well have painted “go away” on the wall… it’s certainly just as non-neighborly. There are a myriad of ways they could have done better… ESPECIALLY considering it’s a design firm… doesn’t make me want to ask them to design anything if this wall was their design!
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150
05/13 04:30 PM
Here are some of the facts on this issue.
That spot has always seen a few people sitting there from time to time, usually with some connection to the Cornerstone Building. It’s never really been a problem.
In February, a group of 4 or 5 people, who frequent that building, decided to spend most of their waking hours sitting on that spot. They sat, and sat, and sat, constantly smoking cigarettes and swearing the day away.
Somebody (not me, I swear), spray painted that step, sometime around March. I laughed when I saw it, because I figured (1) that wouldn’t stop them, and (2) it was ugly, just as everyone here is saying.
Now, those individuals have just moved several steps over to the curb outside of Cornerstone. They even lug out their lawn chairs and sit, usually way past dark.
This brings up some questions for me. I support what Cornerstone is trying to do, as far as I understand their mission, but what is going on here? Are these individuals getting any help (if so, when, because they spend all of their time sitting on the street)? Are they actually employees of Cornerstone? If so, what are they being paid for? Whatever the case, Cornerstone is certainly not enforcing or following the Raliegh 11:00 pm noise ordinance in that area. Why not (I’d love to hear from a Cornerstone representative about this, if anyone knows one)?
As I’ve mentioned in other discussions on this site, there are several issues here. I support helping these individuals as much as possible, but there is also a safety issue, as Robert Leebowitz is correctly pointing out (although, Robert, you are incorrect about the individuals being locked out during the day….they are not). Are these people simply down on their luck? On drugs? Have mental issues? Violent? We don’t know. You have to assume the worst here, I think, to be safe. Assumptions are often wrong, and probably wrong in some cases here, but you have to be concerned about safety first. Sad, perhaps, but true.
And Chad…..how long did you think about this topic? It strikes me as a knee-jerk entry, and for that, I’m sorry to say, makes it a bit of a joke to me. Build a bigger wall? Come on. The owners shouldn’t have to do that. Cornerstone should be responsible here and have some respect for their neighbors. The petroleum jelly stuff is, frankly, just insulting. It demeans your whole thesis. Have some respect for the people that this issue affects. They may have some real, legitimate concerns here (safety, for one) that outweigh your notion that this is only about property rights. Isolation and fear driving this? You’re not properly considering who may be feeling fear or isolation.
This topic is bigger than complaining about a lack of tact. It really is. I hope everyone considers that.
My apologies if I offend anyone.
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150
05/13 07:51 PM
The more I think about this, the more comments I have.
1. To Michael: Go on down to Hargett and Snow, pretty much any night of the week, and tell me if you think the situation fosters a “happy street environment”, the way you’d like. The spray paint isn’t good, but it’s not as bad as the current situation.
2. To Chad: You know what’s funny about this article in regards to property rights? Go check that sign posted at Cornerstone’s parking lot. Private Property - Trespassers subject to prosecution. Seems Cornerstone is concerned about their property rights, too, but they lack concern for others’. As you said, “we?re all about private property rights here in Raleigh”. Pretty funny, huh? Food for thought for your next post.
3. The more I think about the issue, the more I think the issue is about Cornerstone, not the individuals who are sitting, nor the spray-painter. Cornerstone needs to show some concern and respect for their neighbors in the community. They currently are not. A pity.
4. Where are these people getting their money? I’m honestly interested in this answer. I’ve seen one of the individuals with a cell phone. As mentioned, most of the individuals smoke. Pretty expensive habit. Something doesn’t add up here. If they have been at Cornerstone for the last 2+ months, that suggests they need serious financial help. How can they afford to sit and smoke all day? The real question then becomes….Is Cornerstone providing the proper help these people need?
As I said, I’m not trying to offend. This is an interesting and complex topic that should be analyzed more deeply than was done in the original post.
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150
05/19 01:53 PM
Here’s an update on this subject…
Over the weekend, the group of people sitting on the curb seemed to increase in number. Now, an overturned bucket (incidentally, it’s bright orange - just like the offensive “no sitting” message!) has become a seat. Also, people were sitting on the “no sitting” sign that was painted on the step (including one guy who was screaming at himself).
I’m curious as to what the readers of this site who state that they are nervous about downtown, Moore Square, etc… feel about this. Other than the person who painted the “no sitting” on their step, there hasn’t been any resistance to the sitting. Now, in the past three months, the situation has cemented itself, so that this corner is now more than just a meeting place for Cornerstone. It’s now a hangout.
Ah, the slippery slope. I think this is a good example to keep in mind when arguing against people protecting their property rights. If you don’t, you can be taken advantage of. In this case, somebody made a passive stand to protect their property, and not only did it not work, but they got ridiculed on this site. The question now is, if you were in this situation, what would you do?
1. Continue to watch as more people descend on the spot?
2. Complain and risk the potential consequences?
3. Make a bigger statement?Again, I’d love to hear some responses, especially from Chad, who wrote the original post.
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150
05/22 05:01 PM
Still no comments from Chad on this topic??
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150
05/28 12:16 PM
Update:
Last night saw an ugly scene at this spot. Two men got into an argument, with one repeatedly screaming the “n” word at the other and saying he would “fight anyone in this city”. Fortunately, one of the two finally walked off.
The relevance?? What were these two doing there? Were they associated with Cornerstone? Maybe, maybe not. However, as this corner has become more welcoming to people just hanging out, more of this type of conflict will undoubtedly occur. With the unknown status of these individuals, the safety concern grows.
Chad, I’d still like to hear your thoughts.
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150
06/02 11:49 AM
Update:
The number of people hanging out on the curb increased again over the weekend, up to 8 at one point.
Additionally, one person showed up and cracked open a beer. I’m sure that’s not allowed. Open container?? Driking a beer at a facility that aims to help homeless with substance abuse problems??
See the escalation here? One or two people sitting turns into 7 or 8 turns into people drinking, turns into ?????
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jason0x21
06/02 12:36 PM
What are you hoping to accomplish by these updates? It would seem like calling the cops would be a better use of your time.
If you look back and read for content, the original point of this was the flat ban of _all_ sitting on the wall, and the method by which it was carried out.
While this was clearly brought about by some of the people sitting on the wall, the point was that the solution to the problem didn’t lie with banning all sitting on the wall.
You’ve actually managed to prove this point over and over and over again (Thanks!), since the bright orange injunction didn’t actually change the situation.
So, uh, what’s the point in continuing to beat your head against the wall (since placing your butt on it isn’t allowed)?
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150
06/02 04:15 PM
There are a couple of points to the updates (and technically, jason0x21, the spray painting DID work, as the people no longer sit there. They just sit on the curb 15 feet down the road now).
1. To show that this is a more complex issue than the article’s author, Chad, made it out to be. It’s not necessarily about property rights.
2. To try and get some discussion going on this issue, as it involves several topics that interest people on this forum (property rights, homelessness, Downtown Raleigh safety, heck…even your tax money).
3. To point out a different perspective than that expressed by Chad and some of the original commentors.
4. To show that there are consequences to actions and, in this case, inactions. The spray painter defaced their own property, which succeeded in getting the people to move. The inaction after that has led to an escalation of the situation, albeit 15 feet down the road.Frankly, I think it’s lame that Chad wrote a condesceding, poorly thought out, and sarcastic article, and then doesn’t participate in a discussion looking for solutions. He’s got a good, valid point, but it should be explored. Isn’t that supposed to be the point of this site??
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