Raleigh Home Builders: Proportion, Please

freshsqueze
01/30 02:25 PM

Perhaps this adage does work in Raleigh, when it is relayed.  The problem is that the shit you see going up isn’t designed by architects.  Why would a Raleigh owner pay for architect fees when they can buy a plan online?  This reluctance is because they do not perceive the value an architect-designed space can add to their everyday life.  Builders don’t want to use architects because they can make more money by allowing the owner to go bigger and bigger (and they don’t have to execute all of those pesky details.) 

Your friend on the west coast lives in place that is much more liberally minded and intellectually grounded (ie: NOT the South).  The is a much more extensive and rich modern architectural history there from every angle. 

This is not to say that Raleigh doesn’t have a significant and interesting architectural history, but we must raise awareness of the good things around us in order to educate our minds so that we may enrich our culture by building better things around us.

Adam
01/30 02:30 PM

There’s been a lot of articles recently on newraleigh about mega houses in Raleigh. Are you contending that the property owner has responsibilites beyond following local zoning ordinances and laws? If so, what are these responsibilities and what is your basis for justifying homeowners comport to them.

RaleighRob
01/30 02:32 PM

Nice article, Billy.  I guess you didn’t mention where this house is for privacy reasons.  On the other hand, I kinda like bringing public ridicule and embarassment to these “megalomaniac” homeowners.  Seems to me they need some.

freshsqueze
01/30 02:32 PM

perfect example: ignorance is bliss.

Richard
01/30 02:49 PM

Adam: It’s called common sense responsibility. Homeowners should comport to common sense responsibilities because they are co-dependent members of a society. No legislation can, or should regulate that.

Currently egotism drives home-building decisions rather than common sense. Observe the next infill hearing and you will realize that.

Sometimes it’s hard for people to forget that we don’t live in independent bubbles.

Dana
01/30 03:07 PM

Proportion problems are certainly an issue. You mean like this one on Webb St.? (scroll to the middle of the page)
http://www.trianglemodernisthouses.com/harmon.htm

Dana
01/30 03:12 PM

One problems that forces proportion issues is the terrain and previous mistakes that ignored the terrain. Take Clairemont St., for example. Numerous houses built on the west side of the street were built low and too far into the floodplain. Many of these houses are in terrible shape and replacement warrants regrading (infill) to protect the new house. This along with higher ceilings, and additional story and correct roof pitch make the house look way too tall compared to the old, squatty, flat, small houses that the market demanded back in the 60’s. Honestly, those houses should never have been built, and the transition to what should have been built there in the first place is awkward.

Kurt
01/30 04:33 PM

I recognize that house. I pass it often as it’s near my ‘hood. My thought is that the owner really didn’t care about what the neighbors thought because it’s a speculative move on his/her part. They’re betting on not being alone in tear-downs/rebuilds in that area of N**th H**ls.

JZ
01/30 04:36 PM

Even as an architect, I don’t believe everything in the build environment should be designed by one.  Historically, architects have always offered their services to a minority of the population.  There are, of course, exceptions.  The population in general, however, cannot afford architects and thusly, architect’s fees reflect the stiff competition for the little bit of work that is really out there.  So how does a layperson, unfamiliar with the Golden Section, Classical Ordering Systems and Urban Planning principles get a handle on them in order to do the right thing?: REGULATION As I have said in previous comments, there are precedents locally (i.e. Apex) wherein ordinances were adopted, without controversy, that help to preserve the quality of established neighborhoods while still allowing for growth.  Its a question of balance and good regulation does just that.

HelenTart
01/30 04:42 PM

In the majority (not all) of these teardown/replacements, the owner is the builder or some other business. I may be naive, but I find it hard to believe that someone who decided to live in a 25 plus year-old neighborhood would build something that is just a repeat of what is available in the newer neighborhoods.

The modern architecture that Dana links to might not be allowed in the newer neighborhoods that have homeowner’s associations or in the historically designated neighborhoods. But that kind of modern architecture is not what is generally being built. It’s more like the example in the original post.

It seems to me that most of the problems are happening in that 25-50 year-old age range. A lot of us (at least me at 51) were alive when these neighborhoods were built, so it’s a little hard to accept that those neighborhoods do represent a historic period. Because of that, it’s probably more difficult to think about protecting those neighborhoods.

As Billy says in his post, it’s important to bring attention to the issue. This kind of debate is doing that.

Adam
01/30 06:07 PM

I fail to see how building or owning a different sized home than your neighbors conflicts with common sense.

If I buy property, what are my property rights?

It was mentioned by FreshSqueeze that in the South, we are not as ‘Liberally minded and intellectually grounded’. I guess what I am looking for is the intellectual foundation for the argument being offered up by everyone (in which i am in the devil’s advocate role).

Also, I wouldn’t have guessed that Frank Harmon’s homes would be lumped in with the other so called ‘McMansions’.

Kermit
01/30 07:00 PM

“Why, I wonder, does this mantra work for my friend in the way-out-west, but can?t find traction here in Raleigh?”

Even the rhetoric is out of proportion.

erg
01/30 07:28 PM

wow, i am so sick and tired of people like freshsqueeze who stereotype an entire multi-state region as being stupid and conservative.  obvs not from here much?  maybe i’m just a hopeless case who doesnt deserve some architecturally-splendid house since im so stupid and wouldnt appreciate it. 

its ridiculous to think there isnt a precedent in the entire south of building great, appropriate buildings that, when grouped together, have created pleasant neighborhoods and communities.  its also incredibly naive to categorize all of california by what your friend “says” all of california is like.  berkeley and L.A. are markedly different, iirc.

Jake
01/30 07:57 PM

This type of stuff is also very common up North on Long Island.  McMansions crammed in next to tiny capecod homes all over the place.

freshsqueze
01/30 09:31 PM

Adam,

This is not a difficult concept to grasp.  Go read any Design Guideline document for any Historic District, Traditional Neighborhood Development, or New Urbanist development.  Hell, go read any shitty new North Raleigh subdivision design guideline and you will find speak about scale, proportion, and the idea of <u>respecting</u> what surrounds you when you build.  If you try to build a 1,500 square foot house in a neighborhood with all 4,000 square foot houses, you will be rejected if there is any sort of design covenant or committee.   

“Also, I wouldn?t have guessed that Frank Harmon?s homes would be lumped in with the other so called ?McMansions?.”

First, Frank Harmon only has one <u>home.</u>  That’s the one he lives in.  He has, however, designed several <u>houses</u> in the area.  And don’t worry, that was just Dana twisting information like any good Republican.

Adam
01/30 10:31 PM

Ah, condescension. My favorite.

Apparently this not a difficult concept to grasp, just to explain. The intellectual justification for your argument is respect? Not exactly John Locke.

But let’s go with it. Our gold standard is to respect what surrounds us as we build. Well, part of our surroundings are our neighbors, correct? Couldn’t we make the argument that by building a larger house than our neighbors, we increase the value of our neighbor’s house? I wouldn’t find that to be disrespectful if i was that neighbor.

If the McMansion is not violating any statutes, what is the problem again? What people do in the privacy of their own home is their business, right? Shouldn’t the size of the home in which they are privately going about their business also be their prerogative?

Also, I apologize for saying ‘homes’ instead of ‘houses’ previously. It seemed to really trip you up in regards to what I was attempting to communicate. But why was Dana wrong? If Frank Harmon built a home that was much bigger than the surrounding homes, that would be different in your mind?

JZ
01/30 10:54 PM

perhaps we should consider the existing qualities in the neighborhood that drew one to take up residence there in the first place.

perhaps if one were to allow one “McMansion” in said neighborhood, logic would follow that others will also build McMansions thereby changing the quality of the neighborhood’s character.

change in and of itself is not bad, but perhaps in this context it is not what was intended since the neighborhood’s initial character is what charmed its residents to live there…..

perhaps the Guidelines should be viewed as just that: a guide to implementing change that is within a broader context beyond the 4 property lines that define one’s parcel….

erg
01/30 11:01 PM

both frank harmon’s For Real Home and the other one that is near st. mary’s and wade are so unlike their neighbors;  both have fences along the property line, not just fences, but walls.  much less welcoming than a lawn.  a wall speaks wonders of respect for one’s neighbors.  also, their character doesn’t fit in.  and it’s pink.  i mean come on, this isnt boca raton. 

i like the guy, i like what he does with many of his projects, but i’m not going to pretend he hasn’t done exactly what the mcmansioners are doing.

JZ
01/30 11:14 PM

don’t “good fences make good neighbors”?

While superficially Harmon’s work may appear different in style to their neighbors, I would have to say that he still has frequently responded well in terms of scale, building massing and building material.

Whether its stucco or clapboard siding, pink or off-white paint or a flat or a sloped roof, it makes no difference to me.  There’s much precedent for eclectic developer neighborhoods that extend as far back as the 1910s…..

Personally, I feel that a mature neighborhood’s natural features mitigate and unify individual variety.  That’s why it can be so disappointing to see mature trees and other landscaping be removed to make the way for new square-footage.  One must wait another 30 to 60 years to feel like the property “improvements” have stitched themselves back into the local fabric.

John
01/31 03:00 AM

I grew up in a famous Matsomoto home, if your not familiar with his work just google his name. He designed a few homes in the area while he was at NC State.

Needless to say he was a modernist, and some of the neighborhoods fought his designs because they didn’t fit into the character or scale of the neighborhood.  One design was fought to the North Carolina Supreme Court, Matsomoto’s clients won because they had their property rights.

It is very similar to the debate today, should Matsomoto not have been aloud to build these residences?  I think he should have.

Those who don’t like these new homes really make a poor case.  They either say they do not like the way these new homes look or they don’t like the scale.  Taste you can’t legislate, are we going to outlaw modern homes, no.

I currently live in a 1927 American Foursquare, about 3600 square feet, twice the height and twice size of my neighbor. Both were built in the same era, and we are 8’ away from each other.  There are plenty of examples of this in Raleigh’s historical neighborhoods.

Fresh squeeze, i don’t mean to be ugly, but you might want to learn a little of Raleigh’s architectural history before you deem us as unintellectual.  You were wrong on most of your assumptions.

A last note about Mastsomoto, he moved back California to teach and work after he had established a name for himself here.

I am glad we had him for awhile.

John

freshsqueze
01/31 02:44 PM

John,

I am all too familiar with the work of George Matsumoto, Henry Kamphoefner, James Fitzgibbon, Milton Small, Harris, Catalano, and the like… as well as the broader architectural history of Raleigh from Nowicki and Deitrick to the contemporary works of Clark, Cannon, Hobgood, and Frank Harmon. 

All of these people have devoted their lives to academia and the practice of good design; they have studied under masters who are written into the history of contemporary architecture. 

To compare the uneducated-builder-designed-profit-driven crap that is virally infiltrating Raleigh neighborhoods to the work of George Matsumoto is a form of blasphemy that you should be ashamed of.  I would expect this from some who have commented here, who clearly can’t grasp an idea past its literal face value, or others, who persistently stray out of their line of expertise to assert uninformed opinions, but not from someone who knows that growing up in a well-thought piece of built environment can have invaluable positive outcomes on one’s life outlook, sense of self, and view of the outside environment.

georgia
01/31 11:41 PM

Is anyone familiar with the former Uyanik house off Ridge Road?? He was at NCSU during that era. It was quite an engineering example (he was one of the urban engineers on the Dorton arena project). Supposedly 2 bolts hold the whole thing together. Wood, glass, and terrazo are the elements.

Zac
02/01 03:46 PM

ever heard of private property?
perhaps you should build a bigger home or move if you are so bothered by what someone else does on their private property.
grow up.

David
02/01 04:20 PM

Private property rights are not unlimited and it is myopic to ignore when they infringe on others.  A suburban Raleigh citizen can’t replace their home with a restaurant. You won’t be allowed to block out the sun and force your neighbors to deal with drainage problems created by your lack of lawn and negligible setback.

James
02/01 07:23 PM

JZ -

You mention Apex’s ordinance was passed without controversy and seem to imply that it works well.  Can you tell us any more about it?  I’d like to hear what you have to say since you don’t seem intent on bashing me or anyone else for having a different opinion.

HelenTart
02/01 08:07 PM

I found this link at the Apex web site:

http://www.apexnc.org/depts/plan/udo/udotoc.cfm

“The Article 9: Design Standards” discusses size and height of houses and specifically addresses     the scale of surrounding houses.

Zac
02/01 08:36 PM

“Private property rights are not unlimited and it is myopic to ignore when they infringe on others.  A suburban Raleigh citizen can?t replace their home with a restaurant. You won?t be allowed to block out the sun and force your neighbors to deal with drainage problems created by your lack of lawn and negligible setback.”
that is what why have zoning laws for businesses.
nice straw man.
how is this house infringing on others??

freshsqueze
02/01 09:04 PM

that is why we have zoning laws, and we have them for residences as well. some on the city council are trying to update and amend them. 

those arguing on the side of limitless property rights are doing so under the assumption that the zoning ordinance is sufficient and up-to-date.

commiserating with a laissez-faire attitude towards the constuction industry is done at the expense of neighborhood maturation, community character, and neighbors’ rights to quality of life.

Zac
02/01 09:27 PM

So this is not just about how the author (((feels))) about looking at houses that don’t fit his ideals of a homogeneous neighborhood?

People really shouldn’t have to look at “flop houses” like that on their way to Starbucks.
The horror!

how do you measure feel-good things like “neighborhood maturation, community character, and neighbors? rights to quality of life?”

freshsqueze
02/01 10:20 PM

neighborhood maturation is complex process that occurs over several decades and is typically attributed to newer subdivisions to describe the progression of building infill, vegetative growth, improvements and the formation of a general sense of community.  it also involves the response of the ecosystem to human inhabitation.  when a building in a suburban setting that fits in well with its neighbors and surroundings is torn down, the lot clear-cut, and replaced, the process is upset in many ways.  is this the end of the world, no.  but it can really suck for people who have made that community their home for decades.  the counter argument would be that bigger means higher property value for the neighbors, and everyone benefits.  so i guess that’s how you would quantify it, Zac, with money.  because that’s pretty much what all of this boils down to.  with property rights come the right to profit from the free market.  builders get paid more when the house is bigger, and if it’s easier to disregard your surroundings, fuck it.  real estate doesn’t care as long as people are buying and selling.  when the market starts to turn down, any change to zoning is a threat to their livelihood, fuck what happens to the neighborhood, because after everything is said and done, none of these folks have to live there.

Zac
02/02 03:47 PM

Can the author please post a pic of his house, so we can decide if it looks acceptable to us?
thanks!
xoxo

JH
02/02 03:50 PM

As the owner of the house pictured at the beginning of all this nonsense, I just have to say really Billy, I mean come on now, are you actually being serious? “Size 20 clown shoes” and the rest of the crap you were talking about.  First off, I can’t believe that some of you idiots out there are going to pass judgement on someone that you know nothing about, especially from behind a computer.  What a coward!  Anyway, just to fill you morons in on a little history about me and my family, I bought the old house right out of college and lived in it for about 4 years.  Then, we started having problems with the old house as the roof was deteriorating and extensive remodeling of the house was needed.  My wife was also pregnant at the time, so we needed more room than the 1,950 sq ft house could offer.  So, we started looking at moving in to a new house in the area, and guess who it was that talked us into staying and rebuilding?  Our neighbors!  That’s right, I said our neighbors!!!  So, I resent the fact that so many of you people out there can’t see why someone would want to tear down a house that was falling apart only to build a bigger, much nicer, house that could support a young growing family!  Anyway, that’s my two cents and I hope that from now on a lot of you will start thinking about the ridiculous accusations you are throwing around before you gather any facts.  Oh yeah, thanks Zac for supporting us on this bullshit blog!  We’ll see you Sunday for the big game!

MSP
02/02 04:40 PM

We live in Sunset Hills where there has been quite a few tear-downs and renovations over the years.  Several on my street were rentals and the neighbors welcomes the nice homes and neighbors that arrived in it’s place.  Several others were lived in for 15 years or more by the families that decided to tear-down and rebuild to suit their needs.  They did this because they like their neighborhood, neighbors, and stable school district.  The neighborhood actually has gone as far as having the covenants dissolved through a petition to prevent limitations on renovations in the future.  A couple of my neighbors are in the process of drawing up plans for their renovations and we hope to do the same in a few years.  Fortunately we have the support of the neighborhood and hopefully the city of Raleigh will respect that and not interfere with what we have decided for ourselves.

Adam
02/02 05:13 PM

Is the third story deck there so you can signal ships?

Joyner
02/02 09:08 PM

JH, I don’t think this post has anything to do specifically with you or your house, and I don’t think you should take any of it personally.  This conversation is all too funny and I can’t resist jumping in here.  The ownership history on Wake County’s website shows that you bought the house in 2003, and the building detail for your house says that this one was built in 2006.  I know homes don’t go up overnight, and so I don’t quite see how you lived four years into the old house before the teardown.  The old house looks like it was a nice split-level style, and it looks from the aerial map that you could have built an addition and fixed any existing problems, which I don’t know but imagine would cost substantially less than the $717K you paid for the one you got.  Which raises the question of how you paid that amount when the account summary states the value at $569K.  Don’t get me wrong, sir, I think you have a fantastic home in a great location, and I sympathize with the notion of wanting to tear down and start from scratch as you suggested some do not… but it looks to me that the builder pulled a $150,000 fast one on you.  I think that goes to the heart of what fresh squeeze said about the construction industry being generally crooked.

Aside from all that I imagine your house will be worth a million in ten years, and so I’m sure your investment was good one. 

Go Giants.