David Wednesday, May 13, 2009

Community

Smoking Ban Passes House


Today the smoking ban passed both NC houses and has been sent on to Beverly Perdue for signing into law. 

Restaurants, bars, and other businesses will be required to be smoke free, while private clubs (see comments below) and cigar bars are not effected by this law.  Republicans are calling it a violation of rights and democrats are saying its a big win for personal rights. Who’s right here? 

“This is about the freedom and rights to do on your property what you see fit,” said Rep. David Lewis, a Dunn Republican.

Update: In a statement, Gov. Beverly Perdue called it “an important and historic day for North Carolina.”

“I have vigorously supported efforts to reduce and eliminate smoking and this bill will help more North Carolina citizens avoid the dangers of secondhand smoke,” she said.

” “Private club”. – A country club or an organization that maintains selective members, is operated by the membership, does not provide food or lodging for pay to anyone who is not a member or a member’s guest, and is either incorporated as a nonprofit corporation in accordance with Chapter 55A of the General Statutes or is exempt from federal income tax under the Internal Revenue Code as defined in G.S. 105‑130.2(1). For the purposes of this Article, private club includes country club.”

Legislator’s Website

A person who manages, operates, or controls a restaurant or bar in which smoking is prohibited shall:

(1)        Conspicuously post signs clearly stating that smoking is prohibited. The signs may include the international “No Smoking” symbol, which consists of a pictorial representation of a burning cigarette enclosed in a red circle with a red bar across it.

(2)        Remove all indoor ashtrays and other smoking receptacles.

(3)        Direct a person who is smoking to extinguish the lighted tobacco product.

(b)        Continuing to smoke in a nonsmoking area described in this Part following oral or written notice by the person in charge of the area or the person’s designee constitutes an infraction, and the person committing the infraction may be punished by a fine of not more than fifty dollars ($50.00).

(c)        Conviction of an infraction under this section has no consequence other than payment of a penalty. A person found responsible for a violation of this section may not be assessed court costs.

(d)        Notwithstanding G.S. 130A‑25, a violation of this Part shall not be punishable as a misdemeanor.

 

A local health director may take the following actions and may impose the following administrative penalty on a person who manages, operates, or controls a public place or place of employment and fails to comply with the provisions of Part 1C of Article 23 of this Chapter or with rules adopted thereunder or with local ordinances, rules, laws, or policies adopted pursuant to Part 2 of Article 23 of this Chapter:

(1)        First violation. – Provide the person in violation with written notice of the person’s first violation and notification of action to be taken in the event of subsequent violations.

(2)        Second violation. – Provide the person in violation with written notice of the person’s second violation and notification of administrative penaltie s to be imposed for subsequent violations.

(3)        Subsequent violations. – Impose on the person in violation an administrative penalty of not more than two hundred dollars ($200.00) for the third and subsequent violations.

Each day on which a violation of this Article or rules adopted pursuant to this Article occurs may be considered a separate and distinct violation. Notwithstanding G.S. 130A‑25, a violation of Article 23 of this Chapter shall not be punishable as a criminal violation.”

The Entire bill


We have talked about this issue at length:

Our Poll on it
Pro Smoking
Anti Smoking

Under the Dome

Read More: Community, Other posts by David.

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  • Rick05/13 03:24 PM

    Well considering most clubs serving liquor (and not selling food) are currently classified as private clubs (Landmark, Jackpot, etc.) I’d be surprised if the effect is that big.

  • smitty05/13 03:48 PM

    Very profound Rick, most clubs are clubs.  I would go out on a limb that ALL clubs are clubs.

  • Les05/13 04:00 PM

    I’m no lawyer, but I think the key here is “AND is either incorporated as a nonprofit corporation…” Concluding with “For the purposes of this Article, private club includes country club.“

    So I think “private clubs” such as Jackpot and Landmark will have to go non-smoking, but Raleigh Country Club will not… Right?

  • smitty05/13 04:06 PM

    Yeah, that it pretty weird.  I read it again and it sounds alot like the clubs downtown like Jackpot are not considered clubs in this Article because they are for profit.

  • Mike05/13 04:20 PM

    Will you be allowed to smoke at outdoor areas associated with restaurants?

  • Jenna05/13 04:21 PM

    Les and Smitty - you are right. Jackpot, Landmark, etc are not exempt.

  • smitty05/13 04:32 PM

    So Amra’s and Havana’s are going to get a lot busier?  Or are all of the other bars going to apply for ‘cigar bar’ status before the 7/1 cutoff?

  • Drew B05/13 04:40 PM

    To clarify on Les, Smitty and Jenna. Private clubs as defined by the bill refers to member owned nonprofit groups (eg. the elk’s lodge). Bars are specifically referenced as being nonsmoking because they have mixed drink permits(G.S. 18B‑1001(10)). There is an exception for cigar bars, but they must make 25% of revenue from the sale of cigars, among other requirements.

    The private club requirement for bars is a completely different standard as described in t04:02s.0107 ( http://tr.im/kFgb page 7). The main difference being that private clubs(bars) are not member owned and are for-profit.

  • karlaanne05/13 04:50 PM

    it’s a sad day for the cupajoe mafia. :(

  • David05/13 04:52 PM

    I was just about to post some clarifications.  Thanks Drew.  I just spoke with a ‘private club’ type bar and they said they weren’t exempt and frankly happy about that.

  • EF Matt05/13 05:22 PM

    speaking from personal experience having gone through this years ago in New York, and knowing full-well how important smokes are to folks in NC, I can say this: maybe you guys aren’t ready for this yet…..but your kids are gonna love it.

  • David05/13 05:30 PM

    I wonder how it will affect the Hooka Bars- they don’t have humidors etc to qualify as cigar bars.

  • mike05/13 05:40 PM

    I live in Alexandria, VA (right outside DC) and will go to bars in DC rather than VA just because DC bans smoking and VA does not.  Great step for Raleigh!  I predict an increase in business for restaurants and bars.

  • JRD05/13 06:33 PM

    I am sooo happy about this.  I am a conservative and am not a fan of government control over everything, but this issue, I think this issue is different.  Go liberals!......Wow, cant belive I said that.

  • Smitty05/13 07:08 PM

    Yeah, I’m with JRD. Not excited about government control, but this is a specific protection that needs to happen. In New York, everyone whined that bars and restaurants would go under when they banned smoking, but guess what happened? Right - huge increase in revenue!

    “According to the 2004 Zagat Survey, which polled nearly 30,000 New York City restaurant patrons, respondents said by a margin of almost 6 to 1 that they eat out more often now because of the city’s smoke-free policy.” That’s from the Wikipedia article on “Smoking Ban”, under the section on “Effects on Businesses,” sub-section “United States.” Loads of opinion and rigged results on both sides of this argument, but I know that my friends and I hate to go into a place where there’s smoking, and will leave early and drink less because of it. And everyone can go out more often, because they don’t have to put their clothes in at the dry cleaners the next morning.

  • gd05/13 07:41 PM

    as a smoker, I am glad to see this.  I hate smoking indoors.

  • smitty05/13 08:22 PM

    Can cigar bars make 25% from cigars?  That seems pretty unrealistic and arbitrary to me.

  • dt05/13 08:31 PM

    Goodbye Jackpot, its been nice knowing you…

    As a smoker, I have no problem with places choosing to be smoke free, I actually don’t have a problem with some sort of ban for restaurants, but if a private club (read the Landmark not Carolina Country Club) wants to let people smoke, I see no problem with that whatsoever, and its sad we choose to take that decision away from them.

  • JRD05/13 08:50 PM

    Oh yeah!  I forgot about Slims.  What the hell are THEY gonna do?

  • joe andrews05/13 08:52 PM

    IT’S ABOUT TIME. 

    AT LEAST THIS IS A START. WE REGULATE FOOD, FIRE SAFETY, AMONG NUMEROUS OTHER ‘PUBLIC HEALTH HAZARDS’ IN PUBLIC BUILDINGS, YET WE HAVE CAVED TO THE TOBACCO INDUSTRY IN NC FOR FAR TOO LONG.

    FOR THE RECORD, I GREW UP FARMING AND THAT INCLUDES TOBACCO. SO BEFORE THE SMOKERS WANT TO GET ON THEIR ‘PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS’ HIGH HORSE, I UNDERSTAND THE INDUSTRY AND KNOW AS WELL AS ANYONE HOW HARMFUL SMOKING IS FOR PEOPLE.

  • dc05/13 09:18 PM

    I’m going to go ahead and get on my high horse for a second and say, I HAVE A FEELING I WOULD HATE YOU JOE ANDREWS, just a feeling I have, prob. smitty too (and his friends), I only wish my secondhand smoke could continue to keep you away from places I like to go, places that choose to allow smoking, places where you, do not, have to choose to go.

  • JRD05/13 09:43 PM

    dc,
    I have a feeling I would hate you.  Why should people who DONT have a disgusting habit deal with the fact that you do?  We’re not saying not to smoke at all, just not where it could effect other people.  Im sorry that you had such a lack of self esteem or other self image problems when you were younger that you thought that only such a horrible thing as smoking cigarettes could make you appear cool to your peers.  I really hope that you feel like that was the answer to your problems, and as a native of this state, I appreciate you supporting the local economy.  But the reality is, dc, that you are now an adult with nasty habit, that sometimes people find offensive.  So if you’re going to smoke it would be great if you would do it OUT F—KING SIDE!!!
    Thanks,
    JRD

  • dc05/13 11:03 PM

    I think I said that I had NO problem if the bar owner wanted to make their establishment smoke free or if the state wants to ban smoking in places where there is a chance that children could be present, but if a private club, that only admits people 21 and over, wants to allow its patrons to smoke, than I see no problem, I mean what is the big deal now, there are tons of places downtown that are non-smoking, so if you don’t want to deal with it, you don’t have to, its a choice, or at least it should be.  You can have the Busy Bee, 2/3 of the Raleigh Times, Foundation, and any other place that chooses to ban smoking, I’d be ok if you just left smokers with Landmark, Slims and the Jackpot, thats fair right, oh, and we’ll take the Player’s Retreat as well since they were against the ban too.  Everybody wins right?  That said, I only wish all the harmful effects of second hand smoke would have already taken their effect on you JRD, take care, I hope all my fellow lack of self esteem/other image problems brethren do everything possible to make the next 6 months of your bar-going life hell while we still can.

  • jo05/14 06:43 AM

    As a smoker, I am annoyed, BUT, as a smoker I am already accustomed to going outside. That said, I will be outside all the above mentioned bars blowing smoke on the passerby without apology. So self-righteous non-smokers (in particular the self-righteous EX-smokers) and feign coughs, make snide remarks & stupid jokes about coffin nails because you can’t keep me off the *sidewalk. Well, at least for now.

    *for kicks, most of my smoke will be directed towards the douchebag overflow from Glenwood South lined up outside the Busy Bee.

  • RaleighRob05/14 07:26 AM

    ^Be careful there, jo. 
    The new law allows cities & counties to enact even stricter bans if they want to.  Thus, if the city of Raleigh starts receiving hundreds of complaints about smokers on the sidewalks smoking in the faces of people as they enter restaurants or bars, you might find that will be eventually banned to.  So don’t push it.

  • sally05/14 08:24 AM

    “I will be outside all the above mentioned bars blowing smoke on the passerby without apology.”
    ————-
    Wow. Will you be blowing smoke on passersby - regardless of whether they are self-righteous or not?

  • gd05/14 08:32 AM

    I guess I am the only smoker happy to hear about this.

    Smoking indoors is pretty disgusting.  Hell, smoking in general is pretty disgusting, but inside is especially disgusting.

  • Rick05/14 09:09 AM

    It’s really disappointing - you think we’d all be for the free choice of business owners to make their private establishments smoking or non-smoking ESPECIALLY if people are required to obtain a membership to enter.  By signing up for the membership, you’re signing up for all the associated activities that go along with it (i.e. smoking).  Can’t wait until they determine that drinking should be illegal, or that at least alcoholic content of drinks shoudl be limited.

  • Rick05/14 09:11 AM

    Good question - will you be able to smoke at an establishment’s outdoor patio (i.e. Raleigh Times, Busy Bee, Slim’s)?

  • gd05/14 09:30 AM

    Rick:  It was limited in NC until a few years ago when they finally allowed higher percentages of alcohol in beer to be sold in NC

  • Rick05/14 10:18 AM

    GD - I’m aware of that, all I’m saying is that it’s another government intervention into the private sector.  Drunk driving is an obvious public health risk, just like smoking, and arguably causes long term health problems for individuals.  What’s to stop the government from deciding that maybe limiting drinking is a good idea as well?

  • Ken Metzger05/14 10:58 AM

    Off topic, but the government does limit drinking.  They do so through prohibiting public drunkenness, open container laws, not allowing alcohol sales after 2am, not allowing sales before noon on Sunday, not allowing liquor sales on Sunday (this may change), dry counties, and requiring permits to serve alcohol.  What is to prevent them from going further?  The public and elections, but if the majority wanted alcohol more contained then it will probably happen.

  • sally05/14 11:11 AM

    “By signing up for the membership, you’re signing up for all the associated activities that go along with it (i.e. smoking).”

    ———
    No - by signing up for the membership, you are signing up for the ability to purchase liquor-by-the-drink in a bar that doesn’t sell food. That’s why they’re private clubs.

  • jo05/14 02:36 PM

    I was being a bit of a smarty pants, except the douchbag part.

  • Anton05/14 05:25 PM

    Next, I would like to see a ban on stinky car exhaust. As a pedestrian, I don’t like having to walk through unpaved, out of the way places to get to my destination just to avoid all the stinky gas-guzzlin action on the streets. Also, I’ve got to believe that car exhaust is at least as harmful as second hand smoke if not more so. What would a ban on car exhaust look like? Well, at the extreme, get rid of the cars and force everyone to ride the bus, bike or walk (the US auto industry is in the tank anyway) and at the very least, tax the drivers to hell and back (like in the thousands of dollars range) for not having cleaner emissions. Second hand smoke and car exhaust smoke both fall into the category of “High Annoyance, Low Benefit”. You may think its great to be able to ride around and stink up the place, but nobody but you benefits from it.

    Great rant, now it’s time for a smoke!

  • smitty05/14 06:34 PM

    Don’t worry about the Jackpot, that place will smell like smoke long after the smokers have gone.

  • Imagine Raleigh05/16 11:58 PM

    Imagine this: You just banned something before you made the cigarette companys disclose what Ingredients are in their cigarettes. You guys really showed them who is boss.

    You have now forced smokers outside which will provide more people to be approached by panhandlers which means more panhandlers in downtown Raleigh.

    I have cigarettes to give panhandlers which will make them more aggresive for your dollars. It is my goal to spoil panhandlers with cigarettes so they will expect real money from non-smokers…. 

    You think the war is over but it has just started. US Smokers now have a new allies.

    This time next year you will be begging us to come inside and smoke. puff puff

  • John05/17 12:50 AM

    Wow…what a nasty discussion going on back and forth.  People, people, people….be civil please on both sides of this issue.
    But, what should I expect with such an extreme shift in the “power” when it comes to this issues? 
    I agree with those who think that there will probably be more people going out because they will be assured that they won’t come home smelling like someone’s ashtray.  I hear it all the time from non-smoking friends.  They don’t go out because of smoke.  I think the ban will have another positive unintended consequence.  More people will be on the sidewalks outside of establishments which will result in a greater real or perceived vibe downtown.  This will generate more interest in the area and drive more business.  But, that’s just a hunch. 
    Smokers will not stop going out.  They will just learn the new rules, like they did when they were no longer allowed to smoke in grocery stores or malls.  20 years later, even smokers can’t imagine smoking in the produce section.  Yet, that’s how it used to be.  Times change,
    And, non-smokers, dont’t rejoice to the point that it pisses of smokers.  Be patient.  This is a huge change for smokers.  Give them a break and let them come to terms with the change.  Remember how bad you felt when you couldn’t control if someone blew smoke in your face at a bar?  Well, that’s probably how they feel now.  It won’t hurt you to be sympathetic.  After all, they are the ones who have to make the change, not you.

  • SB05/17 04:17 AM

    I love all bars, but applaud the business owners who CHOSE to make their establishments non-smoking. I frequent busy bee (a couple months old), 101 lounge cafe (1 year old), Tobacco Road (~6 months) and more than a dozen others that made the decision to make their restaurants completely non-smoking ınsıde (smokers can smoke outsıde). It is kind of sad that because people could not vote with their money that we have to get the government to bail out the rest of the business owners (that agree with smoking ban) that were probably too scared or did not have the balls to make the call themselves, in fear they would lose customers.  I am fine seeing all the bars have to do it, but I will continue to support those that are already doing it, as I think they deserve the business for making this decision well ahead of “the law”.
    I feel the government is getting too involved in trying to run a business, which I do not agree with. A lot of bars, Smoking or non smoking, use this as a competitive advantage.  I am fine going to either type bar, there IS a place for both, and honestly think this is a sad day in NC history and unfortunate for all smokers. All these bars cater to their smoking or non-smoking clientele and have regulars. Smoking bars with no outdoor area (depending on how you interpret the law), will likely lose out. Non-smoking bars whose regulars chose their bar for non-smoking, will now have everyone to compete with. The law will also open up a lot more sports bars I would probably go to now with my friends who refused to go to smoking sports bars, which again is a reason why I am a little more appreciative of the bars that chose to be non-smoking.


    I will continue to vote with my dollars, like this bill should have been passed.


    I guess the only “Tobacco Road” left in NC is the one on Glenwood. How quickly we forget our state’s history.  Smoke ‘em while you still can.

  • Imagine Raleigh05/17 11:18 AM

    On a serious note. Do we plan to relax the open container laws in the downtown district so smokers can enjoy their drink with their smoke? If I am drunk, will I be arrested if I am on the sidewalk?

    A lot of us are facing an open container violation and a drunk in public charge because we obeyed the smoking ban.

    I’m addicted to tobacco, a leagal, habit forming drug. When I drink, I become irresponsible and chances are some of us will be arrested for obeying the smoking ban.

  • Amy G.05/17 02:35 PM

    I wonder what will be banned next? The door has opened.  Next thing you know, you won’t be able smoke in your own damn house.

    I’m a non-smoker, but I see this is a sad day for property rights.

    For all of you claiming to be anti-government control, but are for the ban: Really? Seriously???  NO, really?

  • John05/18 10:51 AM

    <<I guess the only “Tobacco Road” left in NC is the one on Glenwood.>>

    Haha, except its non-smoking.

    <<How quickly we forget our state’s history.>>

    Our state also has roots in illicit moonshine and we have survived without it smile

  • John05/18 10:53 AM

    <<I wonder what will be banned next? The door has opened.>>

    Not really a legit argument. States and countries all over the world are way ahead of NC in banning cigarette smoking in public and it has not led to loss of other rights there.

  • JeremyD05/18 01:52 PM

    Jo said:

    <<I will be outside all the above mentioned bars blowing smoke on the passerby without apology>>

    You might consider apologizing when I kick your ass for doing it

  • Shan08/11 09:55 AM

    Jo said:

    <<I will be outside all the above mentioned bars blowing smoke on the passerby without apology>>

    You might consider apologizing when I kick your ass for doing it

    LOL at Jeremy!!! Jo does have some nerve! Clearly smoking is unhealthy, and how selfish of smokers to expose us to their bad habits. News flash smokers life doesn’t revolve around you or your bad habits, grow up!!

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