WTF? Wake County to Ban Dogs on Restaurant Patios

WTF? Wake County to Ban Dogs on Restaurant Patios

Rover Move Over

August, 21, 2009, by Jedidiah

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Disclaimer: The photo above isn’t of a dog at a Raleigh restaurant but was chosen for relevancy.

Sometimes it amazes me the rules that we “interpret” not for the good of our society, but for the satisfaction of officials and “regulations”. The latest is directed at dogs and the health hazard they create by hanging out on local restaurant patios.

The N&O published a story on the new regulation in Friday’s paper. In the article, they state that “Wake County food safety officials, citing their interpretation of state rules, have started telling restaurants that canines are no longer allowed at outside tables.” What is this rule that has been interpreted? Read below:

The provision that local and state officials cite as their authority for banning dogs is contradictory. The first sentence says “live animals shall not be allowed in a food preparation or storage area.” That doesn’t appear to exclude live animals from dining areas.

But officials point to an exception to the rule that allows “service animals accompanying persons with disabilities in areas that are not used for food preparation.” Both Breed love and Larry Michael, who heads the food protection branch in the state Department of Environment and Natural Resources, interpret the exception to mean that nonservice animals are excluded from dining areas, which includes both inside and outside tables.

John Morris of Goodnight Raleigh’s dog Elsi at Sadlacks

Seriously? Did Wake County food officials use a “not neither nor but both and” flip flop reasoning to state that dogs aren’t allowed on restaurant patios and (essentially) in public space? Surely the Wake County health officials have more pressing issues to investigate. The last thing we want to do in a fragile economy is deter customers from our locally grown restaurants with such a misleading interpretation of a rule. What next? Cats banned from trash cans and junkyards?
How can you help curb this dog un-enthusiasm? Email Larry Michael (food protection branch in the state Department of Environment and Natural Resources) .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) and express your dismay for their “interpretation of the rules” and to find something a bit more legally binding and pressing to pursue (like Gumby’s).

 








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  • Todd
    08/21 07:10 AM

    Email your displeasure to our friend Ms. Breedlove (.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address))  and your County Commissioners as well

  • John
    08/21 07:17 AM

    I love dogs, well; most dogs but just like kids - I don’t necessarily like their owners or parents.

    I find that a lot of people with dogs (or kids) sitting on patios at nice restaurants in Raleigh think that everyone else around them loves their dog (or kid) as much as they do and that no matter what annoying disturbance the dog (or kid) causes; that everyone else thinks its as cute as they do.

    Just like with the smoking ban, I think their should be exceptions where an establishment can get a permit to be a dog friendly place; than dog owners can go there - and I can go elsewhere.

    If only people could be considerate of those around them, none of these laws would be needed.

  • Ryan
    08/21 07:20 AM

    You can also express your objections to:

    Larry Michael

    Food Protection Branch
    N.C. Department of Environment and Natural Resources
    1632 Mail Service Center, Raleigh NC 27699-1632

    (.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)).

  • CR
    08/21 07:28 AM

    Banning children from restaurant patios is a great idea.  Let the dogs stay, though.

  • Jess
    08/21 07:30 AM

    can we ban kids too? because that would be great…

  • daw
    08/21 07:37 AM

    Why don’t we let them sit with us at the table and lick our plates when we are done? Humans need to be considered first.  I like the decision.  Dogs clearly should not be allowed in dining areas, with the exception of person’s with disabilities, regardless of the verbiage.  What if everybody brought a dog? And what is the difference between inside or outside?  Dogs don’t know that they are not being allowed in dining areas.  I like animals, but we need to set boundaries for them.  As much as a dog may enjoy an outdoor dining area, there are humans who don’t want to dine in a kennel.

  • John
    08/21 07:39 AM

    When I read the law as written, I can see how they come to that conclusion.  But, to make the law clearer, it should have said that animals were banned in all areas of restaurants first.  According to this, it doesn’t.  So, the exception is made for service animals while there’s no specific ban on them in non-prep areas.  It certainly could be more clear from a law perspective.

    That all said, I like dogs.  I especially like dogs that are well behaved. (sort of feel the same way about children) But, I also recognize that there are many out there that are allergic and/or are affraid of dogs, etc.  So, I think that needs consideration too.  Often I am amazed that, when some people get dogs, they automatically assume that they can bring that dog to your house without asking.  I see this similarly.

  • trevor
    08/21 07:40 AM

    Why do you need to take your dog out with you when you go to a restaurant in the first place?

  • Dwight
    08/21 07:42 AM

    Ridiculous.

  • mgd
    08/21 07:42 AM

    My question is if I am outside at The Times, am I on public property (the sidewalk) or am I actually at The Times because I am sitting at their table?

  • dj
    08/21 07:48 AM

    The City is now getting involved in animals on the sidewalks?  How about they take care of the dog sized rats that are seen around town before they open up the debate on pets!  And as far as that goes, the bums asking for cigarettes and change should be a higher priority as well! 


    Let the business owner decide if they want to allow dogs outside of their restaurant.  In reality, there is no way to regulate dogs walking on the sidewalk (outside a restaurant), unless the city bans them completely.

  • Michael
    08/21 07:48 AM

    I think this is a good idea. It respects the rights and protects the safety of everyone involved, including the dogs. There seems to be a lack of rational understanding of the balance of personal freedom and respect for public spaces.

  • 150
    08/21 07:56 AM

    I knew who authored this before I even saw it.  Not surprised at all.

    I don’t mind this ban either.

  • Michael H.
    08/21 08:21 AM

    If a dog is causing a problem on a restaurant patio, it should be up to the business to tell them to leave, or to ban dogs from their patio outright.  The government doesn’t need to place a unilateral ban punishing those who behave because of the few who don’t.  I’ve had a bird crap on my table while sitting at a restaurant patio, surely that’s health risk, maybe we should ban restaurant patios or require them to be screened in.  Give me a break.

  • revolu
    08/21 08:22 AM

    yea why not let restaurants handle this?  this is crazy.

  • Kalima
    08/21 08:32 AM

    I am not a dog owner, but as a Wake County resident who frequents many local restaurants dining next to a dog has never negatively impacted my dining experience.
    In these times any interpretations of laws that will harm and reduce the number of customers @ restaurants need to be avoided as they could be detrimental to the local economy
    We need to support restaurants and local businesses and encourage them to be creative in the ways they attract and attain customers-dining with your dog is a selling point to many. Outlawing this is unnecessary.
    I haven’t heard of any incidences of people catching worms from dining near dogs, however restaurants where people have caught food born illnesses are still allowed to operate, even after receiving sanitation ratings of 60.5, ie. Gumby’s Pizza.
    Enforcing legislation that is not clear and is open to interpretation and bias seems ludicrous, “Why is this important to the community of Wake County, and is this really necessary?”

  • T-Plain
    08/21 08:52 AM

    Without exception, every dog I’ve encountered downtown at places like Lilly’s, the Times, the Borough, etc has been well-behaved and watched over by its owner. This just seems like a restriction for the sake of restriction. Most dogs are better behaved and less annoying than children anyway.

  • concerned citizen
    08/21 08:57 AM

    we should certainly ban Homeless People

    they carry way more germs

    Pro Tip:
    If approached by a Homeless asking for handouts so they can buy crack

    simply state that you do not speak Homeless,
    and continue with your day

  • Richard Bacchus
    08/21 09:02 AM

    Landmark Tavern is a private club and serves no food. Please feel welcome to bring all your live animal friends to our outdoor patio. We do have a strict “No Droids” policy so no synthetics or replicants.

  • gd
    08/21 09:03 AM

    I hope you’re joking concerned citizen.  You sound more like an asshole than a concerned citizen.

  • arthurb3
    08/21 09:07 AM

    Legal the sidewalks are owned by the city so I dont think the law should apply. I dont like eatting with a nosiy and smelly dog next to me or screaming kid. When your dog or kid inconviences the people sitting next to you that is when there is an issue. Leave them at home. The dog is happier running around the fenced in yard the laying at the foot of a table with people feeding it unhealthy food and all the visual distractions that get them stressed out.

  • Homeless Person
    08/21 09:22 AM

    Hey, concerned citizen, I’mma give you my AIDS germs next time I see you downtown.

  • smitty
    08/21 09:24 AM

    I think the restaurants should do nothing.  There is no way this would hold up in court, especially if the outdoor seating area is on the sidewalk. http://www.coastalcarolinaescape.com/article/20090609/COLUMNIST/906099988

  • JeffS
    08/21 09:25 AM

    How about instead we ban people with a stick up their butt. Or how about banning fat people. They make me a little queasy and really disturb my dining experience.

    There are way too many people trying to dictate the behavior of others lately.

  • JeffS
    08/21 09:28 AM

    @Smitty: I’m sure most of them won’t. I mean, like anyone eating at Sadlacks cares about a dog. I would have said the same about Lilly’s or Third place - before the uptight suburbanites found them.

  • daw
    08/21 09:28 AM

    The government meddling argument gets old.  Let the restaurant owners decide?  If there was not government oversight of restaurant sanitation, how long do you think it would be before you’re heaving over a porcelain bowl?  I’d give it a couple of months.  Bon Appetit!

  • NC
    08/21 09:35 AM

    Dog sits on chair.
    Dog poop gets on chair.
    You sit / touch on chair.
    You eat with your hands.

    “....oh give me a break, your being over the top”

    Do the math.
    Ham n eggers.

  • smitty
    08/21 09:39 AM

    I’ve never seen a dog sit on a chair at the Times, but I have seen someone puke all over the table.  I have also seen bird crap on the tables.  Maybe they should require a bird-proof enclosure for the sidewalk patio.

  • tito
    08/21 10:22 AM

    to the folks who asked why people need to bring their dog to a restaurant - in my case it’s because me and the old lady go walking around downtown with the dog and sometimes like to plop down outside for a beer. i don’t bring him for the sake of having a meal with him, but sometimes he’s with me when i’m hungry. i like having the option of being able to grab a bite or beer while i’m out with him.

    also, in my case, my dog lays on the concrete under my table. he doesn’t bother people, doesn’t get on any chairs, doesn’t eat any food from the table, etc. i see no reason why it’s a problem if the restaurant doesn’t mind.

  • CD2
    08/21 10:35 AM

    Bird poop on the table o no.I will take my well behaved DOGS out with me tonight and encourage all others to do so. We need to show the State that we all live here and are part of this Community.

  • daw
    08/21 11:00 AM

    Those who want to allow dogs in dining areas are equivalent to smokers who want to smoke in dining areas.  Both are potentially unsanitary/unhealthful to others, and they are often annoying and unpleasant for others while eating.  Things to remember: Sometimes we can’t just think of ourselves, and not everyone loves your dog.  They will be just fine at home.

  • Bradly
    08/21 11:03 AM

    As a someone who has recently relocated to wake county I am incredibly displeased to discover this ridiculous new ordinance. What restaurant in wake county uses an outdoor patio as a “food preparation or storage area”? Should restaurants construct netting over their patios to keep out the birds? This is really representative of the breakdown in common sense among our elected officials. I most certainly will investigate who has proposed this plan and vote against them in the next election.

  • Jenn
    08/21 11:05 AM

    This is just another example of Raleigh slowly losing its charm, and becoming like every other city.

  • mgd
    08/21 11:14 AM

    Thats awesome!

  • Aaron
    08/21 11:16 AM

    I second what Jenn said

  • daw
    08/21 11:22 AM

    We are losing our charm.  For instance, I had to watch a fellow diner pick up their dogs excrement with their hand while I was dining outside.  Looks like the dogs are in charge, otherwise we wouldn’t be holding their waste.  Dogs are great companions and fascinating animals, but there should be boundaries.

  • Calliope
    08/21 11:25 AM

    Hey - Got an idea here for those of you who are so horribly offended by people with dogs eating outside on the patio - GO INSIDE! Seriously, if it’s such a big deal keep your sour pusses under the cover of darkness. Otherwise, DEAL!

  • DPK
    08/21 11:37 AM

    Sweet deal 101 Lounge + Cafe!  Might have to stop by.  We’re actually getting a new pup this week so it’d be fun to take him out and about.  :)

  • oakcity
    08/21 11:45 AM

    good lord some of you people are just assholes.

    i can’t eat at a place that allows dogs, or kids, or screws the homeless or whatever!!!

    jesus some people just like to complain. citizens PLEASE do your absolute best to piss these people off, and maybe, just MAYBE they’ll stay at home.

    personally i think i’ll go out tonight with my wife and kid, hell maybe i’ll bring my cats too, borrow a dog and start smoking again.

    GET OVER IT!!!!

  • Jenn
    08/21 11:55 AM

    Also please ban the Mommy Mafia that shows up at restaurants with their oversized humvee strollers and pushes others out of the way to make room for their precious snowflakes.  And thanks to the special parents for letting your offspring treat restaurants as a romper room.

  • tc
    08/21 11:56 AM

    I’ll first say, I love dogs and don’t mind eating near them.  So personally, I don’t mind having them on patios. 

    However, this is a consideration issue.  I know several people who are afraid of dogs, and regardless of how well-behaved and awesome you think your dog is, there are people that will be frightened by their presence.  I also know people that are bothered by the smell, fur, etc. of dogs.  Me personally, I don’t understand why some feel this way, but I know some do. 

    You can insult these people, tell them to go elsewhere, whatever, but that is just illustrating the possible need for a ban, because it shows a lack of consideration of others in public. 

    I’m willing to bet that half of those arguing against the ban on dogs on restaurant patios, argued for the ban of smoking….using the same argument I just used.  Ironic.

  • Jim
    08/21 11:58 AM

    oakcity—your wife won’t let you smoke around the kid.  Do you own one of the oversized strollers Jenn mentioned?

  • JeffS
    08/21 12:06 PM

    Scared of dogs, scared of the homeless, scared of dark-skinned men…

  • Lisa Jeffries
    08/21 12:13 PM

    Once again, stomping all over private property rights. Geez mercy, what ever happened to letting businesses, and more so, the customers that continue to sustain them, make the decisions?

  • CR
    08/21 12:18 PM

    You should let your kid smoke in the stroller while a dog pulls it.

  • oakcity
    08/21 12:19 PM

    @ jim, i quit smoking but no i didn’t smoke around my kid when i did smoke, i didn’t smoke around other kids either.

    and no we don’t take our stroller out to restaurants, see we actually have taught our child to behave in public.

    i can see where people can be pissed about these issues, but goddamn folks please realize that you are not the only people in this city, mutual respect goes a long way, bitching does nothing.

  • love it
    08/21 12:22 PM

    Jenn…that is the quote of the day.  Thank you.

  • T-Plain
    08/21 12:31 PM

    Seriously? Comparing smoking to dogs? Let us know when the Surgeon General issues a report on the carcinogenic effect of exposure to dogs.

  • Black Homeless Dog Smoking a Cigarette
    08/21 01:15 PM

    Boo.

  • mgd
    08/21 01:40 PM

    @ Black Homeless Dog Smoking a Cigarette I hear if you go to 101 Lounge you can eat and drink for free! 

    Just make sure you dont jump on someones table and Scat on their food!

  • Black Homeless Dog Smoking a Cigarette
    08/21 01:48 PM

    Thanks for the tip.  You got a light?

  • tito
    08/21 01:55 PM

    if you don’t like sports you certainly know which bars/restaurants to avoid. same with live music. same with mexican food or expensive food. if you don’t like those things you avoid those restaurants.

    to me the dog argument is like someone going to napper tandy’s and complaining they couldn’t hear the conversation because of the noise the band was making. you knew you were going to a bar that has loud music. if you didn’t know that, you figure it out quickly and move on.

    i can tell you right now which bars are dog friendly in raleigh - raleigh times, sadlack’s, lilly’s, etc. if a restaurant doesn’t want dogs outside then put up a “no pets” sign and leave it at that. as a dog owner i never just assume a place is dog friendly. i stick to the ones that i know don’t have a problem with a well-behaved dog sitting outside.

    all of the supposed horror stories are the exception, not the rule and should be dealt with the same way management would deal with a drunk person or a screaming kid.

  • Lew
    08/21 06:21 PM

    @tc
    Raleigh has a leash ordinance, so any dogs on outdoor patios have to be on a leash. I know some people are afraid of dogs, but if my dog is sitting peacefully on a leash that I am holding and you are still afraid of her, then you need to see a shrink. And do we really need to ban everything that people are afraid of or don’t enjoy the smell of? I have a friend that absolutely hates the smell of seafood. Should we ban seafood in consideration of him? And anyone who compares a smoking ban to a dog ban is just being silly. Second-hand smoke kills. Petting a dog actually lowers your heart rate.

    @daw
    There are boundaries. Dogs are not allowed inside food preparation or storage areas and only service dogs are allowed in indoor dining areas. Sidewalks are public spaces that some restaurants choose to place tables on for their patrons to enjoy. Let the businesses decide if they want to serve those people accompanied by a pet, not the government.

  • Tito
    08/22 03:10 AM

    Someone i know spoke with someone at the health board who said the n&o article got it wrong. They said the rule has always existed and they dont enforce it without a complaint. Her take was that the whole issue is much ado about nothing.

  • Skillet
    08/22 05:49 AM

    This is from Larry Michael at NCDENR in response to my email to him -

    “The rule that pertains to animals on the premises of a food service establishment is not a new regulation. The rule has been in effect for several years, which is why the Division of Environmental Health will be moving forward to review and revise it in the near future. As such, the division’s staff welcomes comments so that the best possible decision can be made.”

  • You Wanted to Say It, but Were Chickenshit
    08/22 05:52 AM

    I am taking my dog to every outdoor seating area in Raleigh! Except at the Viet Namese restaurant. That’s a little too risky.

  • chippa dee
    08/22 07:10 AM

    Ba-zing-o!

  • JennS
    08/22 08:00 AM

    Wow, some of the comments here made my stomach turn, and some brought a smile to my face. The bottom line is, like it or not, we all live together in this community and therefore must practice TOLERANCE of everyone with dogs, kids, homeless, rich, poor. I mean when did we forget the golden rule and become so callous to our neighbors? Personally I think dogs bring a little bit more joy into the world that we wouldn’t otherwise have. No I don’t own a dog, but I am pregnant so I suppose my perspective on tolerance has been a bit expanded in the last couple of months. :)

  • MB
    08/22 08:01 AM

    I actually emailed Larry Michael and explored this a bit deeper than “outrage”.  The complaints come not from dogs being present, but from restaurant staff touching/petting/interacting with dogs and NOT washing their hands before returning to food prep or service.  In this light, the regulation actually has a point.

    However, it’s even more easily solved by having food prep staff wash their hands whenever they leave and return to a food prep area.

  • woof
    08/22 12:52 PM

    Skillet - I got the SAME canned response from Larry Michael. Duhhhh, we know the language of the rule is not new… it’s the new interpretation of the language and the enforcement of the new interpretation that’s the problem.

  • woof
    08/22 12:59 PM

    And MB - I’ve seen restaurant workers do MUCH worse things with their hands while serving food than touch a dog. Maybe we just need more training in good sanitation practices?

    Glad Mr. Michael felt compelled to thoughtfully answer your email. He just sent me a cut-and-paste reply that didn’t even address the issues I raised.

  • brauneis
    08/22 02:59 PM

    I was also pleased that at least I got a response from Mr. Michael (I cannot say the same for Ms. Breed Love). I think the remarks I got back from Mr. Michael do not match the comments from Wake County in the the News and Observer…

    Here is the response from Mr Michael:

    “The rule has been, and continues to be, enforced statewide, but the violation is not a frequent occurrence since it is not an area of focus for inspectors or may not occur while they are at the establishment. Often inspectors note it as a general comment and do not deduct points, otherwise a one- or two-point deduction on the sanitation rating may be taken. The majority of time and resources are focused on food handling and food preparation that occurs in the kitchen area. “

  • Charlie Watson
    08/23 05:45 AM

    Why not ban all elected officials? 
    I had much rather be sitting beside a dog at the Raleigh Times than one of them!

  • roi
    08/23 08:10 AM

    I concur with Jenn and Love It comments about kids in strollers’ and parents who let their little imps run and romp all of the restuarants,etc.; and I liked Charlie Watson’s comment.  There is a grill on Medlin Drive where a group of parents bring their 15-20 kids on Friday nights and let them run wild all over the grill… a play ground for their kids for two hours.

  • Half
    08/23 12:16 PM

    Right on, Wake County. People should leave their damn dogs at home when they go out to a restaurant.

  • MindCrime
    08/23 01:11 PM

    There they go again, trying to control every aspect of life.

  • MindCrime
    08/23 01:28 PM

    Btw, Half, allowing my dog to walk around and socialize keeps him from becoming hostile and eating people like you when I take him for walks.

  • WiseOne
    08/23 02:26 PM

    Get over it Bourgeoisie. Going out to eat is a luxury and it will always be over-regulated by a lame government. But I imagine that all this whining and crying might buckle some of our reps. Good luck and great thread.

  • mgd
    08/23 04:56 PM

    The problems people associate with dogs do not stem from the dogs.  It stems from the people who own the dogs.


    I was just at The Times.  Of the 4 dogs there 2 were well behaved.

  • Flowers
    08/23 10:33 PM

    Dogs at my table or near my table when I’m eating makes me want to frisbee-chop them things in the throat with my plate.  Dogs beg too damn much and their overly-sensitive owners usually think it’s cute and cuddly.  When I was young, my father used throw my pet dog through the open patio door and off into the backyard if the dog ever came in the kitchen when food was being prepared, tried to creep toward the dining room table during meal time, or bothered someone while they were eating anything.  That’s what someone should do at restaurants.  Dog bouncers.

  • mgd
    08/24 04:45 AM

    Ah but would he throw your dog into the kitchen through the patio door if you were eating on the patio.


    I do like the frisbee-chop idea.

  • Michael
    08/24 08:48 AM

    All ye who enter New Raleigh abandon reason. And if you decide to post any comment that might hint at maintaining some personal dignity in public be prepared to be tarred as a selfish, bourgeois, suv driving, starbucks-loving, a-hole who doesn’t understand how to keep it real and needs to go back to north raleigh or cary (even if you don’t live there to begin with). And if you suggest that you might want to make a distinction between the dog park and a restaurant, that means you hate animals and homeless people. Oh,and buses and bikes are totally awesome and people that own cars are nazis.

  • Imagine Raleigh
    08/24 09:09 AM

    It is a quality of life issue. Having a dog as a friend and enjoying a little people time out on the town with the dog is a great trade off for all the time you spend waiting for the dog to smell everything their nose can reach…

    Sometimes an owner needs to soak their worn out stick throwing arm in a cold beer while the dog rest under an outside table. 

    Dog owners need to Unite and roam downtown with their dogs until the resturants beg for you and four leg friend to come get a bone and a beer. Don’t just sit back and accept this new law. Fight it but please pick up after your dog because that is a good law.

  • ME
    08/24 10:55 AM

    I do not want to eat my food next to anything that licks its own @$$. Let’s face it, Dogs are not sanitary creatures.

  • GD
    08/24 11:13 AM

    And humans are?
    Most go to the bathroom and don’t wash their hands.

  • mgd
    08/24 11:30 AM

    There are butt licking humans too!

  • Drew B
    08/24 11:42 AM

    Seems to me that this is a simple matter. It’s not a sanitary issue unless workers at the restaurant pet/play with the dogs and don’t wash their hands.

    Everyone above who has complained against having dogs on patios: It’s not your dog, it’s not your patio and it’s not your place to have any say in the matter. Go inside, go somewhere else, or just deal with it.

    To the people with dogs : Keep them under control, at your table and away from the servers.

  • netposer
    08/24 11:51 AM

    I took this photo last August (2008) outside of the Morning Times because of the trash just feet away from the outdoor dining.

    How is this OK but not a friendly dog?
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/vertandstreet/2775338952/

  • Rick
    08/24 11:56 AM

    I’m getting a kick out of this - those of you who were all for the smoking ban and saying restaraunts shouldnt’ be allowed to make the decision for themselves because they were discriminating against you as a non-smoker are so angry that they’re banning dogs.  I hate dogs - they smell, they’re gross, they’re annoying, and I don’t want to have to look at one while I eat.  Finally a ban I can get behind.

  • JeffS
    08/24 12:17 PM

    Rick, why are you assuming that the anti-smokers are pro-dog? I’m sure some are, but certainly not all.

    So what, you’re a pissed off smoker who has the misguided notion that they’re getting even by hating dogs? “Hating” an animal just makes you a jerk.

  • Heather
    08/24 01:14 PM

    Honestly, I never found it fun to bring my dog to a restaurant for me or my dog.

  • mgd
    08/24 01:17 PM

    Yea my dog doesnt like whinny people either so she likes to stay home and chill the the whine free zone…

  • Rick
    08/24 01:36 PM

    Jeff S -

    (1)  I’m not a smoker, I’m for private property rights

    (2)  You’re right - it was my mistake to make a blatant generalization that all anti-smokers were pro dog.  I meant to say “some of you”. 

    (3)  Personally, I’m not anti-dog.  I just want business to be able to decide for themselves, just like i think they should be able to make a decision on smoking.

  • woof
    08/24 01:42 PM

    The County attorney has spoken… the new, broader interpretation of the old rule was incorrect. Wake restaurateurs can decide for themselves if they wish to allow dogs: http://www.wral.com/news/news_briefs/story/5857469/

  • Charlie
    10/23 09:13 PM

    Can we ban assholes that forget that they, too, were once kids? After all, it’s the parents’ way of handling things, not kids, that’s the problem.

    As long as a dog is well-behaved, there is no reason it shouldn’t be allowed on a restaurant patio. It should be up to the restaurant owner, not the government. Of course, you wouldn’t want dogs at upscale establishments, but they’re no problem at low-key places like Sadlack’s and Whole Foods.

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  • Michelle
    07/28 10:46 AM

    That should be completely up to the establishment

  • grandmasterflam
    01/16 04:50 AM

    yes to well-behaved dogs!
    kids hopefully do not poop or pee in public and should not be in the same realm as pets, however. no matter how obnoxious they may be. a reminder to the drinking public that they can become rather childlike OR petlike after a few. maybe tolerance is the key. or drink at home. or diapers for everyone.

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