Partial, Prejudiced & Ignorant. - Five Points

Five Points

When I first got involved with New Raleigh back in the fall, I was interested in writing a piece about The Third Place scaling back its hours from midnight to 7:00pm last August. Due to a lack of time and resources, I never did, but my interest and personal attachment to this place persists, and to introduce my new column, I’d like briefly to start a discussion on the infamous Five Points neighborhood.

The image of Five Points has long been that of the transgressive, creative, and rebellious stepchild of ITB Raleigh – the little sister (ironically) to Atlanta’s Little Five Points. But I often wonder if, outside of monoliths Lilly’s Pizza and Rialto Theatre, Five Points still deserves that status. With Bickett Gallery long gone, Revolver relocated to Glenwood South, and The Third Place now daytime only, the neighborhood just doesn’t seem to buzz like it used to. It no longer elicits from me that odd mix of excitement and intimidation.

Am I wrong? Have I merely grown dull to the vibes of Five Points? And if not, is there any hope that its heart will begin to beat more rapidly?

Look for more partial, prejudiced and ignorant opinions here in the days to come.

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RaleighRob03/16 04:26 PM

I think Five Points’ “coolness factor” hit peak in the late 90s to early 00s for sure. Now that downtown has (FINALLY) been given the attention that it deserved from the city and now provides the edgy urban places that it once lacked, I’m guessing Five Points is having trouble competing. (Add a possible renaissance on Hillsborough Street after it’s finally renovated, and that could create even more trouble.)

For instance, Third Place is scaling back hours and thus probably losing customers. But most of them have found a new home at Morning Times (or perhaps Helios).

And it certainly doesn’t help how the Five Points area’s residential market has gone higher-end. Apartments on Whitaker Mill taken down for high-end luxury homes, while existing single-family residences are getting even more expensive than they previously were.

Fortunately, the Rialto, Lilly’s, Hayes-Barton Cafe, and NoFo keep Five Points one of the more interesting parts of Raleigh and continue to be a destination.

Tim03/16 04:36 PM

Five Points has not been the same since The Stingray Lounge closed.

Alex03/16 05:01 PM

I would have to agree with RaleighBob on this topic. Five Points has definitely lost its allure as well as affordable living. I lived in these apartments of Whitaker Mill before being asked to uproute and move. I remember Saturday/Sunday afternoons walking my dog up to the points for lunch at Lillys or Hayes B or just a friendly stroll on the oak covered streets. It is a shame when a largely friendly neighborhood loses the residents and people that make it so special.

Another problem is the Gone Ugly or “gone broke” bar. Please put a clean, nice bar in its place that will bring back some of the genuine flare that makes 5 points so special.

Yes, Lillys, NoFo and HayesBarton are still special places I frequently visit but are not the same without the people that make them special.

sally03/16 08:01 PM

I was going to say exactly what Tim said. When we first moved here, The Stingray was the coolest place in town - with the best jukebox. (That was before it changed hands - and kept the name.)

I also agree that there needs to be a neighborhood bar in that space. Even though it’s more high-end now, I happen to think most people still choose to live here because of the slightly edgier, hipper vibe - even those living in more high-end accommodation.

smitty03/16 08:56 PM

The hipsters grew up and had kids and stopped hanging out in bars.

joe03/16 09:53 PM

I live in 5 points and have so for years. I own a home there I can say for certain, 5 Points lost what little ‘edginess’ it had years ago.

It was replaced with boring antique shops and the Hayes Barton crowd that will not allow any new development of any kind that would create a more ‘urban’ feel, citing their usual “traffic concern” excuse. In addition, add the 3 gas stations…do we really need 3 gas stations?, a strip mall: ie: Eckerd, i mean Rite Aid and that dumpy-ass building on the corner.

when one compares our 5-points to that of many other cities, Atlanta, being a notable one, its basically the exact same as it was in 1988, 1992, 1997, 2002, 2007, 2008….you get my point. Until Hayes Barton “NIMBYS” open their minds, unfortunately, 5-Points is probably destined for mediocrity.

FOR THE RECORD, I LIVE IN HAYES BARTON SO I CAN CAST A STONE AT MY OWN NEIGHBORHOOD

DPK03/16 11:54 PM

Blame the neighborhood for the gradual decline of Five Points. Like Joe I’ve actually lived in Five Points for a few years (about 5 houses down from the Wachovia on Fairview). I’m moving this month, but Five Points isn’t as much fun as it used to be. Even before the economy tanked, there just wasn’t any willingness of the neighborhood to let anyone new come in and try new things.

The day they tear down Audio Buys I’ll be out there with a lawn chair, video camera, and waving a flag with glee. That building is so ugly.

JP03/17 10:20 AM

DPK: Amen brother (sister?) Audio Buys is the most offensive building in the city.

VaNC03/17 11:10 AM

Actually the Point restaurant has a pretty decent neighborhood bar scene. When I drive by at night, it is always a big crowd in there. i have friends that live in Five Points that frequent the place.

sarah03/17 11:44 AM

I grew up in five points and my parents still live there. It is part of what makes Raleigh where I want to always live. Unfortunetly, I will probably never be able to live in 5 points again. There are less and less rentals and to buy a home there you are going to spend a lot of money.

Anon03/17 12:00 PM

JP wrote: “Audio Buys is the most offensive building in the city.” I remember in 2004 someone tried to buy that building to tear down. The idea was for a corner restaurant with a large outdoor patio seating area. Instead, the DVD duplication store signed a new 10 year lease. How in the world do they stay in business? OK, who is going to lease the former dry cleaners next to the Rite Aid and open a burrito shop?

Bill03/17 01:39 PM

5-Points thrived for a while because it was close to downtown but didn’t suffer from downtown rent levels. It was easier for people to take a chance and build a business. And the housing was still affordable and filled with younger people. That has all changed, for now; stores in 5-points are closing and eventually the rent might adjust to sustainable levels but who knows? Most of the neighbors like the idea of having businesses in the neighborhood but don’t support them. You’d be shocked at how many people that live near the Rialto have never been inside that theater.

luke03/17 03:47 PM

i mean, it’s out of context on that corner, but i’ve always thought the audio buys building was really cool.

JP03/17 04:23 PM

Out of context is a more fair way to put it. On its own merits, its an interesting modernist building - in need of a lot of upkeeping. Its how very out of context it is that makes it offensive. I love to see mixing of modern and traditional, but this building is just dropped in from the sky with no regard to the site.

neal2zod03/17 06:11 PM

Re: Audio Buys - so people on here deem a building “offensive” and hope for it’s demolition, simply based on it not looking like the buildings around it?? What is this, Cary?

Micah03/18 12:26 AM

Calling the Audio Buys building offensive has very little to nothing to do with it not looking like neighboring structures. It is just an ugly, ugly building. It would look out of place in nearly any situation. I cannot remember if it looked better or worse before they built the strip mall behind it in 1990. Oh, and the dry cleaners mentioned earlier that was behind what is now the BP was demolished over 15 years ago.

DPK03/18 03:24 PM

Don’t get me wrong about the Audio Buys building, it is unique. However it’s a poor use of that site and it is not maintained at all. There’s dead plants, broken signage, cracked pavement, and it’s so uninviting. I swear it’s got to be held together with duct tape.

Get rid of Audio Buys and the strip mall. Build a wonderful low-rise mixed use project that fits into the neighborhood.

Bill03/18 04:56 PM

Or put a divey bar in the Audio Buys building and I’ll go there and enjoy the view looking out.

smitty03/18 10:59 PM

They should bring back the Piggly Wiggly

MMI03/18 11:37 PM

Isn’t that view from Audio Buys of the Hayes-Barton Baptist Church? That would make an interesting contrast for Sunday morning mimosa & Bloody Mary drinkers. I could start a rumor that the “Mary” meant that the place was Catholic…

Anon03/19 10:15 AM

Micah wrote: “Oh, and the dry cleaners mentioned earlier that was behind what is now the BP was demolished over 15 years ago.”

I think they’re referring to the two empty stores beside the Rite Aid. The DS Parada hair salon and the dry cleaners to their right closed within the last few years.

TheCatalyst03/19 10:40 AM

I agree. It has been on a downward spiral since Stingray Room closed. The neighborhood always complains to the police about anything above a low din.

arthurb304/02 04:53 PM

When people starting bring kids to Lilly’s Pizza I knew the end was near for the “cool” factor. Now all the kids that made it cool ten years ago are having kids themselves and Third Place is just a hang out for old gay snobby men.

Arthur!
Downtown Raleigh, NC

MMI04/02 07:13 PM

LOL—Um, Arthur…?

Carl04/03 12:17 AM

LOL- Um…....., MMI .... !!!!

MMI04/03 07:58 PM

Yes?

Char04/26 11:39 AM

I’m not thinking about a burrito shop as one reader suggested, but I have been looking at the empty stores next to Rite Aid as a great place for the old fashioned bakery I want to open. It would have really good, freshly baked, home style cakes, cookies, muffins, scones, etc. There would be seating so one could come in for a muffin & cup of coffee, and a baker’s table so the kids could watch their cookies being made (or help decorate them). I really want a community bakeshop where everyone feels comfortable, where the pound cake is so good you feel like you have to tell your friends, and where the special occasion cakes are so beautiful you think they are art. Do you think this would work?

MMI04/26 01:16 PM

If a place selling nothing but cupcakes can make it work on Glenwood, a real bakery (for everyday stuff, not just for “event” items like cakes) should be able to work well. Having it in a neighborhood can only help. At one point, I might have scoffed at the prospect of a pound cake being all that great, but Edible Art and some talented friends & family have convinced me otherwise. Hey, I used to walk a mile at lunch when I lived in Charleston, all for the purpose of getting a really great baguette and fresh butter from Saffron Bakery.

sally04/26 03:52 PM

Baguettes? Now you’re talking…...

Char04/26 04:22 PM

You only scoffed at pound cake because you never had mine - not too sweet, not too dense, perfect top crunch - excellent by itself, but heaven when grilled and topped with fresh strawberries (or whatever is in season) and a touch of whipped cream. I think Five Points needs a gathering spot again. I think it’s a shame that everyone gets in their car and leaves the neighborhood for their morning coffee now.

Weaver02/06 11:47 AM

No matter what they put in 5 points, there still won’t be any parking.

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Raleigh's Acree Graham is

partial to... trends, spelling and grammar, electronic music, postmodernism, irony, Mexican food. Predjudiced against... stucco, pleated pants, UGGs, the CSI franchise, meat, Windows. Ignorant about... art, architecture, city planning, the Arab-Israeli conflict, where marshmallows come from, science.